Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

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Whovastron
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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby Whovastron » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:45 pm

ANewWatchBegins wrote:
speckleness wrote:Something that concerns me is that Chibnall has said that he'd decided the 13th Doctor was always going to be a woman - so I assume he didn't even consider a man, so not even auditioning one. That for me shows that it was a decision based on targets rather than based on who was best.


Or maybe he was interested in casting the net to a range of actors it had never been open to before and was interested to see what they could bring to the role, and recognised the potential in looking in an unusual place. They still auditioned a lot of people, and she was the best out of the people they auditioned. Just because she's a woman, doesn't mean she's only gotten the role because of her sex and not her acting ability.

speckleness wrote:Guess we'll now have to change the description of a Madman in a Box.


That was a title only ever attributed to the Eleventh really, but if you're so desperate to find something to complain about, have at it.

He's not disputing her acting ability. He's saying that Chibnall potentially only auditioned Women. So they may have been a male actor who maybe could have done better, but never had the chance.

I'm pretty sure now the pro-Female Doctor side is just looking for desperate things to say the other side is complaining about. Saying they're sexist only goes so far.

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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby SarahJaneFan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:48 pm

I do find it a bit iffy that Chibnall has just gone from casting the right man for the job to casting the right woman for the job. One day they will just cast the very best person for the job.
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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby Doctor What » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:50 pm

I think Chibnall originally said he didn't want he casting to be a gimmick and that he would cast the best person for the job. Then he's now said he was always looking for a woman, which suggests different reasoning which is a little confusing.
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ANewWatchBegins
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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby ANewWatchBegins » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:52 pm

Whovastron wrote:
ANewWatchBegins wrote:
speckleness wrote:Something that concerns me is that Chibnall has said that he'd decided the 13th Doctor was always going to be a woman - so I assume he didn't even consider a man, so not even auditioning one. That for me shows that it was a decision based on targets rather than based on who was best.


Or maybe he was interested in casting the net to a range of actors it had never been open to before and was interested to see what they could bring to the role, and recognised the potential in looking in an unusual place. They still auditioned a lot of people, and she was the best out of the people they auditioned. Just because she's a woman, doesn't mean she's only gotten the role because of her sex and not her acting ability.

speckleness wrote:Guess we'll now have to change the description of a Madman in a Box.


That was a title only ever attributed to the Eleventh really, but if you're so desperate to find something to complain about, have at it.

He's not disputing her acting ability. He's saying that Chibnall potentially only auditioned Women. So they may have been a male actor who maybe could have done better, but never had the chance.



There's probably been a female actress who could have done better for the past 54 years, but never had the chance. Ideally, I would like to see people auditioned irregardless of sex and gender for the role from here on out, but if this is the first step to achieving that, then so be it.

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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby Galactic yo yo » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:08 pm

Something she has over Eccelston, McCoy and Smith is that she is a diverse actor. By that I mean she's appeared in comedy's like ST Tinians, more serious on Broad-church and has dabbled in British Sci Fi in attack the Block.
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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby Whovastron » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:02 am

Urgh seeing so many articles saying people who don't like the change are against females being in starring roles. Does nobody take a moment to realise that the Doctor is a character with a history and that's why people have a problem, not because females are taking roles, but because this isn't just any old role, it's not like a ghost buster, it's a single character. It makes me so mad that people aren't treated fairly in their opinions on this.

And those people who say don't watch the show if you don't like it are just as bad, telling die hard fans that they're not 'true' fans and shouldn't watch the thing they love. It's just mean.

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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby SarahJaneFan » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:15 pm

Whovastron wrote:Urgh seeing so many articles saying people who don't like the change are against females being in starring roles. Does nobody take a moment to realise that the Doctor is a character with a history and that's why people have a problem, not because females are taking roles, but because this isn't just any old role, it's not like a ghost buster, it's a single character. It makes me so mad that people aren't treated fairly in their opinions on this.

And those people who say don't watch the show if you don't like it are just as bad, telling die hard fans that they're not 'true' fans and shouldn't watch the thing they love. It's just mean.

TW.


It's not about a woman having the role but about the gender of an established character changed. It's not an issue with Ghostbusters as they were completely new characters and changing the race of comic characters in film and to adaptations is also different because they are adaptations and won't affect the comics which they are adapted from. However making the Doctor a woman is a permanent decision that will always be branded as a significant part of Doctor Who history and even then the issue that most people against it have is like I said not to with a woman in a lead sci-fi role, it's about changing an established character a long history in such a significant way. I know that I for one would still be against it if it was a woman becoming a man.

People seem to be trying to make this a sexism issue and while I know some dodgy comments have been thrown around, it's evident that most who are against or reluctant about the female Doctor have their own valid reasons and there is nothing wrong with that. What would be more "progressive" is if people could try and accept varied opinion rather than branding anything that isn't instant praise and awe as sexism, hate speech and misogyny.
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speckleness
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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby speckleness » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:25 pm

As predicted, the tired, lazy accusations of 'sexism' and 'misogyny' abound. As I said, it's used as a tool to stifle debate and opinion, thrown about without actually understanding what the words mean, like when the word 'racist' is casually used - eventually, the word becomes meaningless and sterile. If the arguments were "women are terrible actors", "women are too stupid", "she will only be able to film three weeks in the month", and so forth then yes, that would be sexist and ridiculous. This is not what is being argued.

This is about taking a much loved, long established character that until recently was never written as anything other than a man and turning it completely on it's head for no other reason than to prove a point - the proof of this being Chibnall's own comments.

No-one is calling for all leads or 'heroes' to be men - for example, look at the new Star Wars films - both have been lead by female characters and the actors have nailed the parts and I believe no-one has ever said they won't watch them because the hero is a woman. The same for Alien, Kill Bill, Hunger Games, Game of Thrones, etc. I don't see anyone complaining that these are unwatchable due to them having female leads - that argument is redundant and pathetic. But when it's foisted on people right in their faces simply for the sake of it and told to 'deal with it', then there will be resistance, especially with such long established characters. Look at Ghostbusters.

The hypocrisy is that the 'industry' crows on about inclusion and diversity, yet the Oscars still separate male and female actors. Why is that? Is that meant to be a patronising sop to female actors? It could be argued that when the Oscars began, perhaps it was but why is it still the case? Why after 90-odd years are they still doing it? Shouldn't the category simply be best actor/supporting actor with a list of any gender? If not, then the trans lobby are going to be pushing for a third actor category.

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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby theseventhdoctor7777 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:39 pm

speckleness wrote:No-one is calling for all leads or 'heroes' to be men - for example, look at the new Star Wars films - both have been lead by female characters and the actors have nailed the parts and I believe no-one has ever said they won't watch them because the hero is a woman. The same for Alien, Kill Bill, Hunger Games, Game of Thrones, etc. I don't see anyone complaining that these are unwatchable due to them having female leads - that argument is redundant and pathetic. But when it's foisted on people right in their faces simply for the sake of it and told to 'deal with it', then there will be resistance, especially with such long established characters. Look at Ghostbusters.

I understand your points, but I just want to clarify that prior to the release of The Force Awakens (and some even after it), there was a lot of hate towards the fact that it was now being lead by a woman (And a black man, which some people were pathetic enough to dub "White genocide"), badgering on with the same old "PC brigade" arguments and such, before she'd even done anything. I know that's not really relevant to your point, I just wanted to weight in on that thing in particular.

And also, I just want to say that I hope I haven't been seen to automatically label anyone as sexist for this matter. I have truly only reserved for those who I believe are genuinely being sexist, and I've yet to see any of it from anyone on here, so if it has come that way I do apologise.

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Re: Introducing Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor

Postby SarahJaneFan » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:51 pm

theseventhdoctor7777 wrote:
speckleness wrote:No-one is calling for all leads or 'heroes' to be men - for example, look at the new Star Wars films - both have been lead by female characters and the actors have nailed the parts and I believe no-one has ever said they won't watch them because the hero is a woman. The same for Alien, Kill Bill, Hunger Games, Game of Thrones, etc. I don't see anyone complaining that these are unwatchable due to them having female leads - that argument is redundant and pathetic. But when it's foisted on people right in their faces simply for the sake of it and told to 'deal with it', then there will be resistance, especially with such long established characters. Look at Ghostbusters.

I understand your points, but I just want to clarify that prior to the release of The Force Awakens (and some even after it), there was a lot of hate towards the fact that it was now being lead by a woman (And a black man, which some people were pathetic enough to dub "White genocide"), badgering on with the same old "PC brigade" arguments and such, before she'd even done anything. I know that's not really relevant to your point, I just wanted to weight in on that thing in particular.

And also, I just want to say that I hope I haven't been seen to automatically label anyone as sexist for this matter. I have truly only reserved for those who I believe are genuinely being sexist, and I've yet to see any of it from anyone on here, so if it has come that way I do apologise.


I do think that that response was moer because people thought that Storm Troopers were Clones and so it would be messing with established continuity that there was a black one however this assumption is false.
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