Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

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Galactic yo yo
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Galactic yo yo » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:39 pm

I actually enjoyed it. :?:
Capaldi's speech at the end was perfect
Bradley was ok as Hartnell but I could do without the sexism.
I predicted the famous ww1 Christmas being a part of the story which was a nice touch.
Clara's cameo was fine, though the cgi was a little awkward.
Nice to see Nardole one last time.
Unlike Tennant's regeneration, this story does the right thing and have the doctor accept his fate and not going out like a p****
I loved the use of footage from tenth planet.
Jodie's scene was pretty good and I'm actually excited for series 11.
While it's not perfect, and it did have it's issues, it's probably my favourite new who regeneration.
Having said that this may change on future viewings. I give it a 6/10, I'd give it a 7 but sexist hartnell pissed me off.
Last edited by Galactic yo yo on Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Whovastron » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:40 pm

It was just fanw**ky rubbish, references for the sake of references, and just continuously referring to himself in the 3rd person. What was all that “children will see your name” where did that come from? The cgi was worse than 2006, the direction was all over the place. The colour grading made everyone look like they were constantly blushing.

The only good part was the cliffhanger. The Moffat era is finally over, 4 years too late.

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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Valeyard » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:03 pm

Why did The First Doctor make those sexist comments and jokes exactly? He was never like that. That’s so disrespectful to Hartnell, the man responsible for the show’s existence to this very day, and that’s how Moffat sees him? I honestly don’t think Capaldi was at all happy with how Moffat wrote First.

Still, at least Moffat’s gone, things can’t get any worse with Chibnall, right?

~Valeyard

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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby theseventhdoctor7777 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:14 pm

Valeyard wrote:Why did The First Doctor make those sexist comments and jokes exactly? He was never like that. That’s so disrespectful to Hartnell, the man responsible for the show’s existence to this very day, and that’s how Moffat sees him? I honestly don’t think Capaldi was at all happy with how Moffat wrote First.

Still, at least Moffat’s gone, things can’t get any worse with Chibnall, right?

~Valeyard

I feel like that was just Moffat doing that so he could make characters be like "Woah man that's not okay, things aren't like that now" and think that he would look so much better for it. That was how it felt to me anyway. Really wasn't a fan of the First's writing.

Overall I thought it was okay. Loved the ending, and it feels so nice to finally be excited about Doctor Who again.

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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Doctor What » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:22 pm

Apart from the out of character sexism that was really nice. Not a massive, epic battle (we already had that at the end of series 10 really), but a small adventure. I'm really going to miss Peter.
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Vortexsurfer » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:27 pm

Unlike, apparently most, people on this forum, I am actually a fan of Steven Moffat and generally think that his writing is very clever and nicely walks the line between fan reference and compelling storytelling. In fact I much prefer his work to any of of Chibnal's contributions thus far.

It is for this reason that I am particularly disappointed by Twice Upon a Time, which was dazzling with potential but every magical beat seemed to result in a misstep. The biggest issue was the First Doctor. If An Adventure in Space and Time was a tribute to William Hartnell, then Twice Upon a Time was an insult. In Bradley's own words: "where was that twinkle?" It is a common misconception that the First Doctor was a grumpy and humourless character.

Anyone who has seen his stories will know that is not the case and that Hartnell was a very capable comedian who brought many light hearted moments to his stories. This should have been a way to encourage younger audiences to watch the early stories. Instead it portrayed the First Doctor as a sexist dinosaur, spouting lines that the real Hartnell would never have uttered, and he would most certainly have put any writer who suggested them firmly in their place.

The use of archive footage at the start of the story was good, although the dumbed down captions were not needed, but the ending missed the glorious chance to reconstruct parts of Tenth Planet and Power of the Daleks. Instead of the jarring jump to archive footage and back again near the end, imagine seeing Bradley begin to change, you see the reactions on Ben and Polly's faces and a you see the back of the Second Doctor's head as he stands up before them and just dubbed Troughton line "It's over"... Had the story taken the road of Back to the Future Part 2 and shown more of The Tenth Planet from another point of view, I feel that this could have been far more compelling and could even have explained a few unanswered questions, such as why the TARDIS controls move on their own and why the Doctor's costume changes along with his face. Just picture the Twelfth Doctor handing his earlier self a bow tie, "you may find yourself needing this". That way of showing who the Doctor would become would have felt more natural.

The Christmas Truce scene perpetuates the lie that 25th December 1914 was a day of peace across the Western Front. WRONG! Whilst there were isolated cases of truces, there were many places were the fighting continued. Even in places where this did happen, the soldiers were often using it as an excuse to have a sneaky gander at the enemy's defences. At one spot the Germans even tried to instigate a truce and came across no man's land singing. The French soldiers on the other side machine gunned them down. Likewise truces like this were not isolated to WW1. Such fraternisation happened in the Peninsular War and WW2 to name a few.

Every payoff from the past few seasons seemed to be lacking and/or contrived. The reference to the Brig was just obvious and poorly handled. The Clara moment (yes I actually like her as a character) felt tacked on and Capaldi's farewell speech was bloated and lacked the emotional depth it should have done.

A big shame.

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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby SarahJaneFan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:51 pm

Overall I thought it was good and one of the better Christmas specials, which is odd because Moffat wrote it.
I hated the writing of One, it was painfully inaccurate and I think we’re all aware of that.
I’m glad Moffat didn’t do one of his usual high stakes fanw***y finales because they’re usually awful. And it wasn’t necessary after Doctor Falls (which I thought was actually alright), so I’m glad this was a nice little coda to that and the Capaldi era as well as a quiet affair.
Rusty didn’t need to appear but then I don’t have an issue with him appearing at the same time.
Ughhhh Clara, at least she didn’t steal the spotlight from Bill and the Holy Nardole lord of life.
The Regeneration itself was really good though some of the effects were dodgy, what little we see of Jodie was fairly good.

I’d give it a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. I liked it and I think Moffat finally learned how to do a nuanced and emotive finale rather than the usual self righteous and indulgent crap he normally comes out with. Though that ending speech was horrible, he should have left it with the speech with Bill and Nardole.
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Galactic yo yo
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Galactic yo yo » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:04 pm

Someone needs to do a fan edit where they cut out all of the first doctor's sexist lines.
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby SarahJaneFan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:27 pm

Galactic yo yo wrote:Someone needs to do a fan edit where they cut out all of the first doctor's sexist lines.


That’d basically leave him with no lines other than his conversation with Bill while Twelve was with Rusty.
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby ANewWatchBegins » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:33 pm

Bit of a shame that it wasn't so great. I loved seeing Bill again, wish we'd gotten better moments from her. I really liked Capaldi's final speech, I felt like it helped create a clean start with Jodie, taking the character back to their core values of kindness and bravery. It felt like it was wiping away a bit of the harshness Capaldi had in his first series, which often felt a little bit too much for me, and helping the audience to remember who the Doctor was and what the character stands for, something that felt lost during Moffat's era trying to make the Doctor this mysterious, dark, feared legend, so I quite liked that.

As for Bradley as Hartnell, I'd have to agree with the comments that he lacked the 'twinkle'. I thought the 'Doctor of War' moment was quite nice, I really liked that actually. The sexist comments were ridiculous. Yes, he was a character during the sixties, but he was never like that. It was definitely Moffat trying to look progressive and smug about how forward thinking he thinks he is, but the forced and completely unnecessary sexism did the opposite really. It didn't need to be there, it was a very active choice of his to put it in there, and I think he looks the opposite of how he wanted to there. You're not some saviour or champion of women's rights by acting more forward thinking that someone from the 1960s. I love how much Steven Moffat thinks he's progressive he tries so hard to wink at the audience and go 'progressive eh?', but really, no? You're not? Moffat is generally pretty awful at writing women and LGBTQ characters and you do it in a way that is terrible forced representation that doesn't actually help anything and you think you deserve a massive pat on the back for your sub-par writing. I think the main exception this was Bill, who's character was handled in a way that was a big surprise to me, although there were still moments that weren't so great with her. I'm very glad Moffat never got his hands on a female Doctor.

As for that 'reveal' of Gattis's character, well, safe to say everyone saw that one coming about a mile off? Moffat so often tried to incorporate a lot of classic Who, but sometimes the past needs to be left alone. A lot of the time, him digging old stuff up and putting his own twist on it often mars it and ruins it. It's rediculously arrogant to go through and try and insert your own twists and characters and change the history of a 50 year old show. He made it all about himself. It felt way too self absorbed, shoving Clara into every key moment of the Doctor's life was ridiculous, making the Brigadier a Cyberman was awful, and what he did with that character tonight was another example of it for me. Putting Gattis into the story, and in that role, really just felt like self-indulgence on their parts. I'm sure they're having a wonderful time together but it all felt a bit forced. As for other cameos, Rusty just felt odd to me, Clara I understood, but I'm much more enjoying Jenna in Victoria this Christmas. It would have been nicer if Nardole had turned up and not made awful jokes but alas. Bill's goodbye did get me a bit teary, I'll admit.

I'm so glad he didn't go for some ridiculously complicated plot, it was simple and it was a goodbye. I won't miss him as a writer, at all. He was never as clever as he thought he was, just arrogant and smug. He writes complicated stories that isolate the audience because he solves it by introducing a plot device at the 13th hour that the audience could never have solved without it, it was always solved by something random or rediculously complicated and the joy of a mystery in your narrative is allowing the audience to try and solve it with you, he doesn't do that. He just looks at the audience and winks saying 'Clever me!', which he did in Sherlock as well, especially in later seasons, and I think audiences got quite sick of it.

As for Jodie, we didn't get much, but I'm really excited to start a new era and I really liked those obscured shots to introduce her. That was a very dramatic crash. Interested to see what Chibnall's going to give us.


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