Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

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7thWhoVlogs
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby 7thWhoVlogs » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:08 pm

I wanted to LOVE this episode, but unfortunately I was met with out of character sexism from one of my favorite Doctors, self aware dialogue, cheap gags played clearly for an audience reaction, a lack of threat, a pointless stretch out of Capaldi's regeneration, a shoehorned in Dalek cameo (Yeah, right, Rusty was able to kill ALL of those Daleks!), pointless re-use of the RTD era music - This is meant to be the end of Capaldi's era, not modern Who.
Things I liked, Capaldi was great as usual, David Bradley played the 1st Doctor well in certain areas. The ending made me excited for series 11, the dalek mutants were cool... and that's it
Believe me, I didn't go into this wanting to dislike it, I was so hyped (Fell into that trap again). I'm not a Moffat hater, I've loved a lot of his stories, even ones which people actively dislike, but I am so relived that he is leaving, the show has been stale for a while now (series 10 was a step in the right direction, but not amazing)
Here's to the Chibnall era, I wish Jodie all the best and I'm sure she'll be great!
Overall rating: 4/10

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Galactic yo yo
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Galactic yo yo » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:53 pm

I completely forgot ben and polly were in this.
"it's seems that I am some kind of a galactic yo yo" - Jon Pertwee, The Claws of Axos

The Outcast
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby The Outcast » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:09 pm

I wasn't too keen on this episode. I didn't think the plot went anywhere, I mean, what was actually done in this story? The very little that did happen could have easily not happened if the glass people had just said why they were doing what they were doing when the Doctor said that stuff about if he didn't like it, he'll stop it. I do understand this story was mostly about characters and how they interact and in saying that, I can now easily segway into my main gripe into this story (which isn't the inclusion of Clara).

Yep, you (yeah, you reading this right now) can easily guess... It was the butchering of the 1st Doctor's character. The sexist lines in this story were an insult to the character of the 1st Doctor, who was only very, very, very rare, if at all, ever sexist in his run. It seems Moffat just thought "the character of the 1st Doctor was created in the 1960s, and in those times people were sexist, so I'm going to make him a sexist", rather than watched his run and talk to people about this topic. I cannot remember anytime, nor has anyone brought up a time in my discussions on this topic, where he made such undeniably sexist statements as "Women are made of glass" or whatever that stupid line was. It felt so awful to see a great character, the character that started it all, the character audiences grew to love, reduced to a sexist who is the butt of all the jokes. It isn't right. I agree with Galactic Yo-Yo's earlier statement, someone needs to do a fan-edit to remove the sexist lines. No, someone needs to start a petition to get the jokes, which are unimportant to the plot, removed from all future showings of the episode and be removed from the DVD, only accessible as a special feature.

In the mean time, I've come up with a vague head canon to explain this ____ away. Essentially, I think at some point, there was a Multi-Doctor event where all the Doctors came together and during it, 13 or another Doctor past her mentioned the sexism displayed here to 1, who then subconsciously reminds himself to pretend to be a sexist when this event occurs in order to not cause a small paradox. This is why the sexism in this story always feels slightly forced...

Convoluted, yeah. But its the best I could come up with and it is certainly better than letting the 1st Doctor's reputation be tarnished.

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Vortexsurfer
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Vortexsurfer » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:09 pm

The Outcast wrote:It seems Moffat just thought "the character of the 1st Doctor was created in the 1960s, and in those times people were sexist, so I'm going to make him a sexist", rather than watched his run and talk to people about this topic.


I would be inclined to agree, except that we know that Moffat is a life long fan who is familiar with Hartnell and the First Doctor. It's not like this was written by a novice who had to play catch up.

Personally I think the drafts for this and the next episode of The Crown were left on the same desk and somebody opened a window. A gust of wind scattered the pages everywhere and some of Matt Smith's Prince Phillip lines ended up being accidentally gathered up with Bradley's.

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RYCBAR123
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby RYCBAR123 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:12 pm

Overall I thought the episode wasn’t bad but left a lot of loose ends for me.
Firstly, Bill isn’t dead, she’s the “sentient oil” with Heather so I don’t know how the Testimony got her memories if she’s not dead.
Also, I don’t know when Clara had her memories taken, traveling with Ashildr or when she goes back to Trap Street and faces the raven.
This is probably just me overthinking but if anyone has ideas / theories, that would be appreciated! :)
RUN you clever boy... and BE A DOCTOR.

SarahJaneFan
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby SarahJaneFan » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:17 pm

RYCBAR123 wrote:Overall I thought the episode wasn’t bad but left a lot of loose ends for me.
Firstly, Bill isn’t dead, she’s the “sentient oil” with Heather so I don’t know how the Testimony got her memories if she’s not dead.
Also, I don’t know when Clara had her memories taken, traveling with Ashildr or when she goes back to Trap Street and faces the raven.
This is probably just me overthinking but if anyone has ideas / theories, that would be appreciated! :)


It could be that Bill did in fact die and the oil version is just a copy of her mind, so in essence Bill’s body died and a copy of her mind was taken by the oil while the memories were taken by Testimony. Or maybe it’s just a massive Moffat plothole.

Question is, is Nardole dead or was the copy of him just created from the memories of Bill and Twelve?
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RYCBAR123
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby RYCBAR123 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:45 pm

SarahJaneFan wrote:
It could be that Bill did in fact die and the oil version is just a copy of her mind, so in essence Bill’s body died and a copy of her mind was taken by the oil while the memories were taken by Testimony. Or maybe it’s just a massive Moffat plothole.

Question is, is Nardole dead or was the copy of him just created from the memories of Bill and Twelve?


Yeah that makes sense, her mind lived on as the oil but her body physically died and her memories were extracted.
With regard to Nardole, he will die at some point and testimony had time travel so maybe he dies in the future and Testimony take his memory then.
Or maybe Moffat just did what he does best even in his last episode, leave unanswered questions and annoying plot holes! :lol:


Whether Bill’s dead, alive, oil or glass, as soon as the newly announced figure comes out, she’ll live forever as a small plastic model on my shelf!!
RUN you clever boy... and BE A DOCTOR.

Davidkarnak
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Re: Twice Upon A Time - Christmas Special 2017 (SPOILERS)

Postby Davidkarnak » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:23 am

My main concern as always is, maintaining continuity however small. There, I would assume, be a lot of experts in the production of the series that would be aware of, and maintain continuity. I recognise that in the past some continuity errors occurred due to budget constraints, and keeping an eye on continuity within scripts and attitude; “why bother it’s just a kids programme, no one will notice”. However, with such a large following and fan base, even the smallest of continuity errors do not, these days become unnoticed. So one would think better research is done.

One glaring error in the recreation of the TARDIS Console Room in ‘Twice upon a Time’ The hexagonal walls never ever appeared in the 1960s. Why didn’t they just recreate the original ‘Photographic Blow-up’ roundel walls following the original ‘Brachacki’ design used in both the Pilot and Transmitted ‘The Unearthly Child’ episode. I know by the time of ‘The Tenth Planet’, the two large ‘Computer Bank Towers’ that appeared on each side of the ‘Scanner Screen’ gantry had been dropped, as far as part of the production stage set. An example is shown below in my custom ‘Console Room’, which shows the both the left and right-hand sides that were replaced by the white ‘Hexagonal Walls’.

There were many glaring continuity errors in ‘Twice upon a Time’ as well as some very nice touches, such as; the ‘Astral Map’ and especially, the ‘Brachacki’ TARDIS prop, that was a very good rendition of the many alterations made to the prop, even though the ‘clover-leaf’ door stops (positioned above the windows) did not appear until later on during the final season of the 2nd Doctor (Patrick Troughton) era.

Or am I just too picky?
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Views of my custom model of the back elevation of the ‘Brachacki’ Console Room used during the 1960s
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