Underrated/Overrated Stories

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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by Spannerintheworks » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:10 pm

All respect to the opinions here, but I LOVE "Revelation". I agree it's totally flawed, especially with regard to the mentioned "Doctor and Peri spend the first episode waiting to get to the story". But it's great for Davros, and has so much else that's good going on.

I'm also one of those: McCoy's Era falls flat with me. But really, some of that's down to execution. The stories are often paced and shot terribly. (Contrast the "Boom!" of "Battlefield" with the re-edit on the DVD: It's really editing that could make the difference for a lot of 80's Who.)
Additionally I find the incidental music appalling. It used to contribute mood and otherworldliness, but by "Time and the Rani" it sounds like sports highlight segues from 1986. That's really a game changer for me too, as the better soundtracks ("Fenric", "Ghost Light") help those better stories and the alternative soundtrack for "Paradise Towers" really pushes that story into great territory for me.

I always try to give the Era another shot, but each time it falls flat for me, again. It kills me because there are so many great ideas and concepts; I'll happily admit one season of McCoy has more concept and imagination then seasons 20-23 had in total. But for me at least, it's like watching a bad movie of a great novel. I love and recognize the characters, but am disappointed with the realization.

Other "underrated" ones:
I do love the idea of "Warriors of the Deep". That's another one where the execution and soundtrack do it in, too.

I love "Death to the Daleks" and "Revenge of the Cybermen". The latter's redux on Blu-ray really helps a story that I always felt was one rewrite away from being great. And on another soundtrack note, I actually love Carey Blyton's work on both.

Everyone bags "The Android Invasion", but I feel like a pacier, "New Series"-style edit would make it a solid watch. It's got a great episode 1, and actually conveys its setting/community being "off" well. Shame about the lame eyepatch reveal.

Overrated: The entire "Davies era" love fest everyone extols and seems to hope the show will go back to irks me. I was thrilled when Moffat ditched the lame "every ep/series" tropes (The far future always dresses like right now, The past bicker like a terrible 00's sitcom), not to mention the inability to not worship Rose every couple episodes, and the almost juvenile humour and soap-style character notes. Yes, 9 & 10 were great, and there are some stone cold classics in there. But it's like hearing people want their high school years' euphoria back, completely forgetting the awful, dated things they did, said, or wore.
Why not just let the show be great now, on now's terms?

On a similar note, I think Murray Gold got better as he continued. His scores for series 9 & 10 are incredible, considerate, and use themes better than most film. I used to hate when his music felt like it was used to strong arm emotions, but by series 9 and 10 he's elevating and informing performances, in some cases powering them. (See: Clara's death in "Face the Raven, The Doctor trying to look past Missy's past in "The Lie of the Land".) Anyone who feels like he was doing his best work when 10 and Rose were leaning on walls is sorely underestimating how much better he got.

So actually, yeah: Underrated? The music/soundtrack of Doctor Who. When it's good, REALLY good? It's incredibly underrated, and often groundbreaking.

Spannerintheworks
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by Spannerintheworks » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:16 pm

And ooh! Yes - "The Beast Below". Moffat himself said that deserved another rewrite, and I agree: if you focus more on the moral conflict and eventual reveal of the Space Whale/its intent, Amy trying to get used to things, and the Doctor's conflicts - it's GREAT Doctor Who. The winders and the nursery rhyme teaser almost put the episode in a different direction, and it's a shame. Much better second time, or especially if it follows "The Eleventh Hour" right away: I introduced a friend to the show with series 5, and that episode had her totally taken in after that series' solid intro.

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skifflebits
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by skifflebits » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:55 pm

Spannerintheworks wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:10 pm
I'm also one of those: McCoy's Era falls flat with me. But really, some of that's down to execution.
Agreed. And so much of what goes wrong with a lot of 80s Who is down to execution. I could go on, but I'll save it for another discussion.

But to me, the McCoy era is one season's worth of stellar stories spread over two season's worth of great ideas spread over three seasons of television.

Overrated: The entire "Davies era" love fest everyone extols and seems to hope the show will go back to irks me.
Good God! Me too! They all seem to forget that the reason they love it so much is that they were all mostly kids when they first saw it. :)

I absolutely love Ecceston and Tennant to bits, but RTD's credo of DW as a soap opera and "plot doesn't matter as long as you're shedding tears and wondering if they're going to snog" wore on me pretty thin.
On a similar note, I think Murray Gold got better as he continued.
Also agreed. IMHO there were two Murray Gold's: RTD Gold and Moff Gold. Moff Gold was brilliant. RTD Gold was like being emotionally smacked with a broom handle.
Be nice or I'll bring back this: https://i.imgur.com/TGx4F7A.jpg

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Doctor Gamer
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by Doctor Gamer » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:41 pm

I respectfully agree with all the opinions here, but I think there are some real shiners on the 1&2 and 3 soundtracks. The series 3 soundtrack especially has some awesome songs on their like “The Doctor Forever” or “This is Gallifrey” allthough I do agree that all the rose era songs just feel like we are being spoonfed emotions and told to be sad because the music said so.
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Gek2Win
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by Gek2Win » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:29 pm

I've got to be honest, I've got to fiddle with the rules here, but I don't think the Mysterious Planet is bad. I think it's just ok. Colin and Nicola are good as always, Shalom's introduction makes for an interesting comedic tone, and the thematic concepts shown throughout the story are quite good. Drathro isn't that awful of a villain, but it's just a little simple, despite his unusual motivation. And the free are just... what? It feels like a strange imitation of a Robert Holmes story, with added light-hearted comedy and ultimately a non-serious tone. The unfortunate thing is, was that it was written by Robert Holmes.
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Deborah J
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by Deborah J » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:20 pm

Gek2Win wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:29 pm
I've got to be honest, I've got to fiddle with the rules here, but I don't think the Mysterious Planet is bad. I think it's just ok. Colin and Nicola are good as always, Shalom's introduction makes for an interesting comedic tone, and the thematic concepts shown throughout the story are quite good. Drathro isn't that awful of a villain, but it's just a little simple, despite his unusual motivation. And the free are just... what? It feels like a strange imitation of a Robert Holmes story, with added light-hearted comedy and ultimately a non-serious tone. The unfortunate thing is, was that it was written by Robert Holmes.
Shalom :lol:

I actually really like mysterious planet, it feels like it could do with a little more in there, like if you stripped away the trial material and replaced it with more character and world building it could ve a solid entry. As holmes scripts go it's not on par with his greats, but it's better than krotons, space pirates or kroll.
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skifflebits
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by skifflebits » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:00 am

The direction is kind of poo, though. :)
Be nice or I'll bring back this: https://i.imgur.com/TGx4F7A.jpg

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Gek2Win
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Re: Underrated/Overrated Stories

Post by Gek2Win » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:20 am

Deborah J wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:20 pm
Gek2Win wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:29 pm
I've got to be honest, I've got to fiddle with the rules here, but I don't think the Mysterious Planet is bad. I think it's just ok. Colin and Nicola are good as always, Shalom's introduction makes for an interesting comedic tone, and the thematic concepts shown throughout the story are quite good. Drathro isn't that awful of a villain, but it's just a little simple, despite his unusual motivation. And the free are just... what? It feels like a strange imitation of a Robert Holmes story, with added light-hearted comedy and ultimately a non-serious tone. The unfortunate thing is, was that it was written by Robert Holmes.
Shalom :lol:

I actually really like mysterious planet, it feels like it could do with a little more in there, like if you stripped away the trial material and replaced it with more character and world building it could ve a solid entry. As holmes scripts go it's not on par with his greats, but it's better than krotons, space pirates or kroll.
I actually spelt that correctly, but it appears autocorrect has struck again. At least it's learning; it's stopped autocorrecting TARDIS, Dalek, and Cyberboi.
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