Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Anything About Doctor Who *Caution Spoilers*
Spannerintheworks
Posts: 605
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:08 am

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Spannerintheworks »

Doctor Gamer wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:27 pm
I have no problem with the current era. It’s going to be a lot easier to accept that the doctor is a woman and frankly not care about the gender because it shouldn’t be a defining character trait for any gender. The more you care about the doctor being a woman the less easier you are to enjoy the show and accept that things will change. The doctor is a woman deal with it.
I mean, maybe it's just me but telling anyone to "deal with it" really isn't going to make them consider your point with compassion. It'd be like if I said "Series 12 hemorrhaged its audience faster than any other modern era and often comes in last in fan polls, deal with it." We both have valid points but likely neither of us is really going to take to the others' with any thought with that hard line.

Also, while I know there are exceptions in the opinions expressed here, I must restate that it is possible to be ok with the Doctor being any gender but NOT ok with the last series, its writing, or storytelling choices. Somehow it seems we keep coming back to "Why can't you be ok with Jodie being female? Then you'd love Series 12." when I have to point out the most extreme view I recall in this discussion biased against Jodie STILL was willing to accept Jo Martin as a future Doctor. (In fact, I believe they said she was "the best thing" to come out of the recent series.)

I'll put it this way: If you asked me to choose either 1) Jodie with a whole new production team and writing staff or 2) a 14th male Doctor with Chibnall I'd overwhelmingly choose the former. I actually think a lot of those critical of the era would. Is Whittaker great in my opinion? Honestly, no. But I have to admit the writing and direction seem more to blame than she does personally: When given an actual scene that demands more of her than standing slack-jawed or babbling exposition, she can be good. (I'm thinking the wedding in "Demons", her final speech in "Judoon", and her team structure rant in "Villa") The same problem plagued Colin Baker and people happily reassessed him fairly with Big Finish. Hopefully we don't have to wait 15 years to do the same with Whittaker.

I respect that most of us have been open with the caveat "You can have your own opinion" but I just think it's a shame we're attacking or defending an era assuming some here have a blanket stance. It's why I've been very descriptive with my opinion because while I feel like I could encapsulate my feelings with two snarky sentences I also don't want to be assumed of the parties that assume Doctor Who is now some radical leftist agenda with no chance of good content and freely condemn the show with words like "cucks", "SJW", and childish variations on Jodie and Chibnall's names. (They're all over youtube if you insist on seeing what I mean.)

I dearly would love this era to succeed/rebound and I feel that a gender switched Doctor was always going to polarize reception to a degree. But we can't solely blame "Oh, you're just salty because 'he' is now a 'she'" any more than I should just assume cancellation or retcon is the only option forward. There are other eras of the show I find lethally dull or annoyingly pedantic, and people find the positives in those all the time. I try to as well.

We all obviously like this show. (Or we have a very sadistic choice of collecting hobby if we don't. ;) ) Just chiming in to appeal to us all seeing what we agree on about the current era or trying to understand why others don't based on what we say, rather than a perceived consensus. :)

Edit: While I wrote this there was a comment to the tune of "The Doctor is a man, and should remain as such." Rather than take the "Deal with it" stance, let me say this:

Time Lord canon changed with this regard back in Series 6, and with onscreen representation in Series 8 (with a major recurring character no less). I admit that while I agree it is less progressive to just co-opt a Male character to create a strong female role rather than just writing a strong female character in the first place, Doctor Who is unique not only in Regeneration recasting of the lead role but also the character's alien origin. Comparing to James Bond and the like is apples and oranges in some ways.

So let me ask, why does the female Doctor upset people here who say so? Did Missy upset you in a similar way? And if you don't like Whittaker, is it really just gender? Or how she plays the role or is written?

Kaldor
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 4:54 pm

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Kaldor »

That’s a solid stance. I’ll concede that the Team Structure speech in Villa is the closest Whittaker has ever come to being a Doctor.

DalekCheese
Posts: 4410
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:54 pm

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by DalekCheese »

Spannerintheworks wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:35 pm
<snip>
Megabased.
Image

User avatar
greeneggsandspam
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:44 am

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by greeneggsandspam »

DalekCheese wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:14 pm
Spannerintheworks wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:35 pm
<snip>
Megabased.
great contribution well done
Eggs gon give it to ya

Kaldor
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 4:54 pm

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Kaldor »

greeneggsandspam wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:14 pm
DalekCheese wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:14 pm
Spannerintheworks wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:35 pm
<snip>
Megabased.
great contribution well done
I’m assuming that’s sarcasm? I have seen a few similar posts so I just assumed that’s Dalekcheese’s post style. Whilst I, too, don’t agree with the post, if it was considered spam (which it could be on any other board), I’m guessing the mods of the board would probably remove it, so it might be best to leave it alone rather than approach it from your angle (and currently indeed my own) as we’re cluttering the thread and derailing it slightly.

I’m still fascinated to see what others have to say, because it is singlehandedly the worst episode to grace our screens since... well, Orphan 55. Or that other one. What’s the one that had the Sea Devils written out of them?

User avatar
Doctor Gamer
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Doctor Gamer »

I really liked praxeus on a rewatch
Image

User avatar
Doctor What
Moderator
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:33 am

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Doctor What »

If you're going to reply, please make sure you're actually adding something, this is how threads get derailed. BOT please.

Kaldor
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 4:54 pm

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Kaldor »

Doctor Gamer wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:56 am
I really liked praxeus on a rewatch
That’s it! Couldn’t remember the bleeding name. I spoke to my Pops the next day, and they couldn’t find anything they wanted to watch that Sunday, so tried DW and he fell asleep!
The story itself seemed to go nowhere. Just my opinion though.

User avatar
SJF
Posts: 1339
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:16 pm

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by SJF »

I feel like the Whittaker era so far has been consistently stronger in terms of individual stories, but it completely falls flat on character arcs/development and any kind of story arc.

Like we’ve got stories such as Rosa, Demons of the Punjab, It Takes You Away, Can You Hear Me? and The Haunting of Villa Diodati which would all probably be absolute classics if they appeared in any other era but because the main characters are so generic it makes it more difficult to connect to the story.
Image

User avatar
greeneggsandspam
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:44 am

Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by greeneggsandspam »

I've enjoyed the last few series for the most part, I'd say that the average quality of the episodes has been higher than the first two series of capaldi's doctor, but possibly a bit lower than matt smiths first two. What I don't like and it is mostly just the final episode of s12 that is guily of this, is when the show sets the doctor up as beeing too important. Pretty much all through the classic series, and for the first few years of the new series the doctor is just one falible person. the first 3 doctors weren't really able to go places they wanted to go, 4th and 5th also frequently couldn't, they were looked down on by the rest of timelord society as the kind of person to scrape by academically and be of low social standing, they never had a reputation preceding them when they went to a new situation, they had to win respect and solve problems on a case by case basis with their charm and out of the box thinking. I think the seventh doctor era was starting to go more into a sense of the doctor having some grander importance, and manipulating events, and I'm kind of glad that never went anywhere because it loses that spirit of adventure we have when the doctor is just blundering from adventure to adventure. They had similar over the top plans for 8 that were all scrapped, then we went back to basics with 9 where he was a man alone walking the universe, if anything more stipped back than before because all the homeworld baggage had been thrown out, and the show was the better for it. Then we started getting silly again in tennants run, because the doctor had ended the timewar that meant he had to now be really important, we had the timelord victorious we had gallifrey trying to resurect itself through something something the doctor and the master, prophecies and just why? We don't need that. Then with 11 it got more silly, the whole fate of the universe hinged on his tardis exploding, then there was galactic alliances and whole military religions set up to try and stop him and his reputation getting so big that people would run away rather than face him, I really don't like that, the character gets too big and they lose the fun feel of just adventures in space and time, it's all about big important things and I just don't care. Then 12 had the whole hybrid thing that just turned out to be a big load of nothing, then we got a couple of years of just fun stuff, and now the doctor is the most important person in timelord history, and I just wish they could stop doing that. Changing the doctors backstory I don't really care about, having aditional doctors before hartnel fine whatever, though it seems a waste of potentially interesting incarnations to throw them away as one off "hey I'm a version of you forgot", but fine. But having it be that timelords only exist because of the doctor, and all that stuff, the master rekilling the timelords because he's annoyed with the doctor being so important, it's too much, the more excessively important they make the character the less I care about them.

I've enjoyed the series, but that is just my least favourite thing, we've had 4 or 5 rounds of it and they make it bigger and more obnoxious every time.
Eggs gon give it to ya

Post Reply