Controversial Opinions

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DalekCheese
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by DalekCheese » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:22 pm

....

No
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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Spannerintheworks » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:53 pm

Valeyard wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:42 pm
Davros should have only ever appeared in 'Genesis of the Daleks' and stayed dead for the rest of the show's history. His character arc was complete in that story and after that was reduced to an insane inventor who wants to wipe out all other lifeforms in the universe who survives everything against impossible odds.
I disagree. He actually has the best consistent development of any "villain" in the series. Especially if you count Big Finish, but for the sake of simplicity:

Genesis: Dav's mission statement, obviously. A ruthless, clinical, genius manipulator with conquest on the brain.

Destiny: Yes, his resurrection is convenient, but he was pretty sly. The Daleks still being a force clearly energizes him, but he still has the proud oversight that the Doctor exploits. Notably, he seems confident that his knowledge of Daleks relegating all other life to subservience or extermination (including him) will allow him to circumvent losing authority or control. (Total hubris, just as before)

Resurrection: Here he really starts "growing". He takes the good and bad news of the Dalek status, and forms a plan. He's out for himself from here, realizing that his creations are flawed, and intending to tweak them to allow his plans to work. However, he has to subvert Doctor/Dalek/human effort to stop him, which leaves him with thin resources and options....soooo....

Revelation: Though not perfect, I love this story as it shows a genius at work: Being a boo-hiss genocidal villain wasn't working, and the universe poised against Daleks left Davros with too much opposition to start from scratch with any overt idea of what he was doing: So, he manipulates his way to a resource-laden, economic advantage to produce a new Dalek army. And it WORKS, until a perfect storm that includes the Doctor shows up. A notable failing: he can manipulate people and situations, but he lacks the "human" understanding of his workers and they betray him.....

Remembrance: Surrounded by Daleks, this allows Davros to succeed: The Doctor calls it, his lack of humanity isn't needed to wheedle his way to the top of the Dalek heap. However, it also means he can't really detect or outsmart the Doctor's subterfuge....

Journey's End: Davros had a lot of time to consider his losses and (technical) demise, and the Doctor is at the center of those. He cruelly tries to actually hit the Doctor where it hurts while he (again!) insures isolation from the human elements/scrutiny that opposed him: He initiates a plan that even allows for the Daleks taking control; He knows how to play that to his satisfaction AND accounts for the Doctor enough to emotionally compromise him (with great timing too; It's an incarnation who's extra frowny about it). He's begun to understand how humanity "works" again. Again, classic hubris - he presumes with scientific coldness about "the facts", ignoring the possibilities with Caan and Donna/etc while unlikely, were possible.

Magician/Witches: This is almost "Watchmen" levels of character growth and examination beyond "hero/villain" roles....and it's earned: Davros and the Doctor get more reunions than the Doctor affords companions. Davros has a near lethal understanding of humanity and how to exploit it; This time, the Doctor really would rather believe he's genuinely helping (as his return to the boy shows), BOTH have grown since their last (televised) meeting. It's riveting for me; most of this is down to the performances and interaction of The Doctor- Davros, and on rewatch it shows his realization of how to genuinely manipulate emotion is miles away from the clinical, factual manipulator of "Genesis" & "Revelations".

Speaking of adversaries - Only the Master had similar care and growth throughout, and it definitely wasn't as consistent.

And I have to say, while Missy "coming round" makes sense....it's gratifying that Davros grew....more bad. He was a selfish, genocidal genius and has been surrounded by emotionally dark creations of his....he'd not just have a cry and think about what he's done. Can't fix everybody, and the way Magician's/Witches was used to examine the Doctor and Davros in that regard was great.

So yeah, I'd not trade that. If Sutekh popped back onscreen and tried to have a chat with the Doctor after a wobble, it'd seem disingenuous. Unearned, and out of character. Fenric supposedly played a long game with the Doctor.....but we didn't see it. Remember the Great Intelligence, when all of a sudden it was back with all this history & significance? It'd be like that. And other repeat characters, like Borusa or the UNIT family have been gone too long to carry the same weight. (Really only Sarah Jane, The Brigadier, or - to a lesser degree - Jo Grant have the same history and weight here as well)

I'd absolutely not lose Davros - it's a rare thing in Doctor Who, an individual (stress on individual; a single person not a monster) villain with consistent development and growth with a 40+ year history. We only have one other that comes close.

RoseyT
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by RoseyT » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:05 am

Boom Town is a decent story and would be far more respected had it not been in a series as strong as S1

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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by BilliePiperFan » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:29 am

RoseyT wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:05 am
Boom Town is a decent story and would be far more respected had it not been in a series as strong as S1
I agree.
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BilliePiperFan
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by BilliePiperFan » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:29 am

I think overall Series 1 is one of the strongest of New Who.
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Valeyard
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Valeyard » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:39 am

Terror of the Vervoids is genuinely enjoyable and is the best story in ‘Trial of A Time Lord’. I’d argue it’s the best story in the entire Colin Baker era.
'Bring back the Vervoids you cowards.'

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Danoftardis
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Danoftardis » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:19 am

RoseyT wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:05 am
Boom Town is a decent story and would be far more respected had it not been in a series as strong as S1
I really like Boom Town actually, it's one of my favourites from S1. It's just great seeing Jack and Mickey interact for the first time.

Here's another controversial opinion for you, I actually don't mind Fear Her at all, it's got some good moments. And if you disagree with my opinion I'm reporting you to the council!
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Galactic YoYo
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Galactic YoYo » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:09 am

RoseyT wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:05 am
Boom Town is a decent story and would be far more respected had it not been in a series as strong as S1
For me it sums up my biggest problem with the RTD era, should we have an adventure in the Time traveling spaceship or shall we just wonder around Cardiff listening to the dull lives of our leads. They don't even bother to pretend it's london, it's the perfect example of cheap filler which lead to stuff like the lodger, forest of the night and Arachnids.

HOWEVER to be fair it's far superior to the story it replaced.
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CharlieTheWhovian
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by CharlieTheWhovian » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:28 am

Can't remember if I've said this before but I think s6 is Matt Smith's strongest season.
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Galactic YoYo
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Galactic YoYo » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:42 am

CharlieTheWhovian wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:28 am
Can't remember if I've said this before but I think s6 is Matt Smith's strongest season.
Definitely, The Impossible Astronaut and the Girl who Waited are my favourite 11th Doctor stories.
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