Controversial Opinions

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Danoftardis
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Danoftardis » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:20 am

Deborah J wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:51 am
Danoftardis wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:41 am
This isn't exactly 'controversial' but 'The Web Planet' is one of my favourite Hartnell serials. I know it's got a bit of a bad reputation but I enjoy it, there's quite a good idea behind it, and it's certainly ambitious for 1965. Plus who doesn't want to see people dressed as giant ants and moths?
Well I can be controversail to you by saying that it's one of my all time least favourite stories. It's the only one I'm not able to watch in one sitting, because the "vaseline-on-the-lens" effect they used to make the planet look more alien makes me feel physically nauseous. I can't get through more than two or three parts before I have to bail and come back to it another day. Like I've watched the war games all in one sitting before, Web Planet is just impossible. I also feel really bad for Bill Hartnell in that scene in part one where he forgets his lines and theres about a minute where they just keep rolling and Ian is trying to prompt him back to the place and he absolutely doesn't have a clue, and eventually they just pick up from nowhere and act like nothing happened, my heart really breaks for the guy there, it's hard to watch. also the second half gets really slow, which doesn't help if you already feel a little queasy, it's like it's never going to end.
:o

Y'know what, I can understand where you're coming from, the vaseline can be rather off putting and Hartnell is so nice you can't help but feel sorry for him when he has one of his moments. And I confess even I find that the second half does start to drag somewhat, but I still enjoy it. I'm probably just odd.

Also I don't think I've ever watched a classic serial in one sitting before. Maybe when I was younger and they used to put Doctor Who Omnibus on UKTV Gold. I only ever watch two or three parts at a time. It's not that I can't handle it or anything, quite the opposite, but I like to give myself something to look forward to the next day. :lol:
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Deborah J
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Deborah J » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:46 am

Danoftardis wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:20 am
:o

Y'know what, I can understand where you're coming from, the vaseline can be rather off putting and Hartnell is so nice you can't help but feel sorry for him when he has one of his moments. And I confess even I find that the second half does start to drag somewhat, but I still enjoy it. I'm probably just odd.

Also I don't think I've ever watched a classic serial in one sitting before. Maybe when I was younger and they used to put Doctor Who Omnibus on UKTV Gold. I only ever watch two or three parts at a time. It's not that I can't handle it or anything, quite the opposite, but I like to give myself something to look forward to the next day. :lol:
Usually if I'm watching classic who I'll watch 2 episodes at a time (or one if it's s22) but there have been many times in the past where I've fancied putting on a story and just watched the whole thing in one sitting, then another day I can watch a different story.
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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Spannerintheworks » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:21 pm

I too am OK with "The Web Planet". It does drag a bit after episode 3. It certainly has flaws, but a lot of ambitious and/or budget challenged Doctor Who does. I just kind of forgive if the story, performances, and ideas are still good and sincere & there's some fun to be had, even if it's campy.

Stories I find wander into "bad" are usually ones that are boring or require characters to behave in ways that don't make sense. These include "Underworld" (literally the only Tom story I struggle with), "Time-flight" (but it's funny), "Arc of Infinity"....no surprises there.

But when the new series insists on me taking it so seriously without much actually happening/concept, it leaves me more bored than having fun too. So maybe more controversially, I'm gonna say Doctor Who is at its worst not when it's camp, silly, or running a silly or lacking premise into the ground (AHEM "Aliens in London"), it's the worst when it's BORING.

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Deborah J
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Deborah J » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:24 pm

Spannerintheworks wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:21 pm
"Arc of Infinity"....no surprises there.

What is it you don't like about Arc of Infinity? I quite like that one myself.
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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Spannerintheworks » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:54 pm

Deborah J wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:24 pm
"Arc of Infinity"....no surprises there.

What is it you don't like about Arc of Infinity? I quite like that one myself.
Roger Limb's ear piercing score (I do love "Caves" though). Amsterdam, for no reason. Amsterdam, for no reason, intersecting with Tegan. Listless performances from extras/the support cast. A hench-beast that, via concept/execution, makes me miss the Gel-guards. Colin Baker actually trying, but then being neutered in purpose and ultimately removed from the story when it needed anyone giving a damn. The Time Lords' whole solution of "Oh, it's after the Doctor, best we kill him" - even at 6 years old I was yelling questions at the screen. Gallifrey rendered as boring as a retiree's shopping plaza. (For maximum effect, watch episode 2 of this after "War Games" 10 or "Deadly Assassin" 1. You go from atmosphere & mystery to overall flatness)

Things I like, to be fair:

Nyssa's quite good, and it'd be nice to travel with her alone more. Peter Davison tries really hard too, but ironically he seems to do better with his time as Omega - makes some sense; The motivation and idea is clearer. And the annoyed look he gives when Tegan is back is great.

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Danoftardis
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Danoftardis » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:13 pm

I quite like 'Underworld' and 'Arc of Infinity' myself. 'Underworld' I just found really fun, and 'Arc of Infinity' is suitably entertaining 80's Who. And if I remember correctly Nyssa tries to shout at and take on the entire high council, what's not to like there. :lol:

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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by DalekCheese » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm

Danoftardis wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:13 pm
I quite like 'Underworld' and 'Arc of Infinity' myself. 'Underworld' I just found really fun, and 'Arc of Infinity' is suitably entertaining 80's Who. And if I remember correctly Nyssa tries to shout at and take on the entire high council, what's not to like there. :lol:

And remember: The quest is the quest!
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Danoftardis
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Danoftardis » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:24 pm

DalekCheese wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
Danoftardis wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:13 pm
I quite like 'Underworld' and 'Arc of Infinity' myself. 'Underworld' I just found really fun, and 'Arc of Infinity' is suitably entertaining 80's Who. And if I remember correctly Nyssa tries to shout at and take on the entire high council, what's not to like there. :lol:

And remember: The quest is the quest!
I hear your quest, sir, and I raise you this!

https://i.imgflip.com/366kc4.jpg
I'm confused. :? What exactly am I looking at here?
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DalekCheese
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by DalekCheese » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:26 pm

Danoftardis wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:24 pm
DalekCheese wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:20 pm
Danoftardis wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:13 pm
I quite like 'Underworld' and 'Arc of Infinity' myself. 'Underworld' I just found really fun, and 'Arc of Infinity' is suitably entertaining 80's Who. And if I remember correctly Nyssa tries to shout at and take on the entire high council, what's not to like there. :lol:

And remember: The quest is the quest!
I hear your quest, sir, and I raise you this!

https://i.imgflip.com/366kc4.jpg
I'm confused. :? What exactly am I looking at here?
The quest is the quest

The floor is made of floor

And you are looking at God
I am a:
⚪Man ⚪Woman 🔘Scat

Looking for:
⚪Sex ⚪Love 🔘Ba bop ba dop bop bop

Spannerintheworks
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Spannerintheworks » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:32 pm

Things Underworld suffers from:

The pacing. The disjunct of episode one having a solid set and tone, and then episode 2 losing those base elements for the remainder of the story with an esoteric concept. The core concept being lost on the actors, including the leads. Crucially, Tom Baker and Louise Jameson, two actors who can find reason and enhance their performance with nuances in so-so stories, seeming either disinterested or unable to do so. A score that's on autopilot.

In fairness, what I like:

The concept of this story runs circles around most Big Finish and New Series episodes. The tech ideas, like the shield guns, are totally rich in imagination.

So much "Doctor Who" has such strong ideas, presentation, or performance that it can make up for when direction, actors, story/resolution is lacking. But in "Underworld", even with a stronger idea than the stories on either side of it, everything lags with no one thing rising above.

Ironically, it pretty much predicts how 21st century Who would be made. (Green screen, reliance on Leads' performances, ties to mythology/earth stories, making it work in post.) It's just too much too early here.

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