Hate for Moffat - Unnecessary?

[DWDVD]

A mod can move this if it's in the wrong place, I just thought It'd get more conversation here than in DW Chat.
Seriously people, what exactly is wrong with Steven Moffats DW? Or the man himself for that matter? People on here go on about Moffat ruining DW, and how they hate it - Someone even said they hated the Weeping Angels now, and they were a rubbish villain. The people who moan about him, wanting him to leave DW for good, and to get RTD back, are just ignorant. Sorry, I'm being rude, but so are they. Everything that man does with the show is bad according to them. Cut him some slack, he's a fan like us, and can't always please every one of us. I just don't understand it, I really don't. So, here's a list of things that Moffat has done good with the show. Feel free to quote/add parts to it if you want.

1.Introduced a new Doctor, new companions and a new format, without loosing viewers (yes, the TV ratings may be lower, but check iPlayer, and recordings - they match up to RTD's day)
2. Brought back the Daleks - for good. A real fault of RTD's era was the fact that the most popular enemies didn't actually exist in the universe any more, and a new explaination had to be given every episode they were in. Look past the Paradigm Daleks - The idea was there, and they can come back now easily. Plus, the new Daleks aren't actually that bad. If they're given duller paint jobs, and the shape is slightly modified, they could work.
3.Brought back the original Cybermen (and Cybermats!) - Something RTD failed to do, cause he got bogged down with a Cyber origins story that couldn't be done properly, so created an entire parallel fraction.
4.Gave the show a kind of 'family' unit, within the cast. Two main companions, who are married, and are best friends with the Doctor, along with more recurring characters - River Song, Winston Churchill, and young Amelia (if she counts). Also, Liz 10, Van Gough, Charles Dickens (yes, I'm counting them because they've all made a return appearance within the show) , the clerics, Madame Kovarian. The idea that the Doctor has a history throughout history, and gives the audience characters they're familiar with, who aren't the main cast, and gives them a history
5.Linking in with points 1+2, but separately , he has brought back more enemies from Doctor Who's past, adding in more continuity. Mainly The Silurians, and the Weeping Angels, but also The Alliance (which also featured Torchwood and SJA enemies too, maintaining the continuity between shows.), and the Judoon/Silurians/Sontarans in AGMGTW, along with the Ood (being even more creepy than before) in The Doctors Wife.
6. Has introduced more creepy villains, apart from the Weeping Angels - mainly The Silence, and The Headless Monks. The concept of both are horrific and unnerving.
7.The Doctors Wife. Need I say more?
8. Has created some seriously good 'reveals', that no one anticipated - Amy being revealed as Flesh at the end of TAP and waking up with Kovarian staring at her, telling her to push, The River reveal, The Doctors death (included because it would have been amazing if the spoiler picture hadn't been released a few days early - not Moffats fault), the Brigadiers death mention (truly moving), Mels regeneration in LKH and the little girls' in DotM.

Too tired to write more because I've just wasted half an hour typing this, thinking it all up. Sorry if it sounds like I'm sounding like an RTD hater, I'm not, it's just everyone compares what Moffat does to him, so I'm just turning that on it's head... I've probably missed loads here, but I've made my point. It's okay to not like his Who, but seriously, bad mouthing it all the time isn't helping. Don't like - don't watch, or rather, don't moan on forums continually about it. Try and focus on the good things maybe?. Harsh attitude, I know, but kinda true.

Right, bored of ranting now, away to look at that 60's cobwebby Dalek again...

[KarenGillanFan]

Good rant, although two picky things:

1. Moffat didn't do all of the things you've mentioned. Some/most could be put down to the writers of each individual story, as to whom needs to be congratulated.
2. The BBC officially released the Doctor's death spoiler image at midnight before the episode aired, thus Moffat must've been responsible.

Other than those, I worship you with your post.

[theseventhdoctor7777]

I totally saw Mels' regeneration coming - She seemed like River when she held the gun and said "I've got a gun, you've got a time machine: Let's Kill hitler!"

And I just think he has totally ruined things

[KarenGillanFan]

And I just think he has totally ruined things

Not entirely true, though. Surely you must think of one positive since he's taken over?

[van Statten]

Well since you posted this, it makes it open for a response whether you like it or not. And the first thing you need to remember is someone's view of this guy is nothing personal against you. Some of you seem to think a dislike of Steven Moffat is a slander against you.

1.Introduced a new Doctor, new companions and a new format, without loosing viewers (yes, the TV ratings may be lower, but check iPlayer, and recordings - they match up to RTD's day)
2. Brought back the Daleks - for good. A real fault of RTD's era was the fact that the most popular enemies didn't actually exist in the universe any more, and a new explaination had to be given every episode they were in. Look past the Paradigm Daleks - The idea was there, and they can come back now easily. Plus, the new Daleks aren't actually that bad. If they're given duller paint jobs, and the shape is slightly modified, they could work.
3.Brought back the original Cybermen (and Cybermats!) - Something RTD failed to do, cause he got bogged down with a Cyber origins story that couldn't be done properly, so created an entire parallel fraction.
4.Gave the show a kind of 'family' unit, within the cast. Two main companions, who are married, and are best friends with the Doctor, along with more recurring characters - River Song, Winston Churchill, and young Amelia (if she counts). Also, Liz 10, Van Gough, Charles Dickens (yes, I'm counting them because they've all made a return appearance within the show) , the clerics, Madame Kovarian. The idea that the Doctor has a history throughout history, and gives the audience characters they're familiar with, who aren't the main cast, and gives them a history
5.Linking in with points 1+2, but separately , he has brought back more enemies from Doctor Who's past, adding in more continuity. Mainly The Silurians, and the Weeping Angels, but also The Alliance (which also featured Torchwood and SJA enemies too, maintaining the continuity between shows.), and the Judoon/Silurians/Sontarans in AGMGTW, along with the Ood (being even more creepy than before) in The Doctors Wife.
6. Has introduced more creepy villains, apart from the Weeping Angels - mainly The Silence, and The Headless Monks. The concept of both are horrific and unnerving.
7.The Doctors Wife. Need I say more?
8. Has created some seriously good 'reveals', that no one anticipated - Amy being revealed as Flesh at the end of TAP and waking up with Kovarian staring at her, telling her to push, The River reveal, The Doctors death (included because it would have been amazing if the spoiler picture hadn't been released a few days early - not Moffats fault), the Brigadiers death mention (truly moving), Mels regeneration in LKH and the little girls' in DotM.

1) Bet episode he's done even if it has some problems.
2) His Daleks are just silly.
3) Has yet to really establish this on screen.
4) This is nothing new that hasn't been done before.
5) Okay point for him here!
6) See I don't find anything interesting about the Silence... especially now that we know that's not truly their name... The headless monks, well come on they don't make sense and I doubt we'll ever get an explanation of them and how they function. If you throw something in for shock value it's not good writing.
7) He had nothing to do with that according to Neil Gaiman.
8) The Amy thing was good, point to him... River, everything about this one is dumb... He gets a point for mention of Brigadier's passing... Mel was dumb too... and so was the whole astronaut thing. Ridiculous.

So... what we have is someone who A) has some interesting ideas.... B) has zero ability to execute... and C) writes dialog from Hell.

He took his angels and ruined them. They went from uber creepy to... oh yawn... look... another lame maniacal monster.

[DWDVD]

Well since you posted this, it makes it open for a response whether you like it or not. And the first thing you need to remember is someone's view of this guy is nothing personal against you. Some of you seem to think a dislike of Steven Moffat is a slander against you.

1.Introduced a new Doctor, new companions and a new format, without loosing viewers (yes, the TV ratings may be lower, but check iPlayer, and recordings - they match up to RTD's day)
2. Brought back the Daleks - for good. A real fault of RTD's era was the fact that the most popular enemies didn't actually exist in the universe any more, and a new explaination had to be given every episode they were in. Look past the Paradigm Daleks - The idea was there, and they can come back now easily. Plus, the new Daleks aren't actually that bad. If they're given duller paint jobs, and the shape is slightly modified, they could work.
3.Brought back the original Cybermen (and Cybermats!) - Something RTD failed to do, cause he got bogged down with a Cyber origins story that couldn't be done properly, so created an entire parallel fraction.
4.Gave the show a kind of 'family' unit, within the cast. Two main companions, who are married, and are best friends with the Doctor, along with more recurring characters - River Song, Winston Churchill, and young Amelia (if she counts). Also, Liz 10, Van Gough, Charles Dickens (yes, I'm counting them because they've all made a return appearance within the show) , the clerics, Madame Kovarian. The idea that the Doctor has a history throughout history, and gives the audience characters they're familiar with, who aren't the main cast, and gives them a history
5.Linking in with points 1+2, but separately , he has brought back more enemies from Doctor Who's past, adding in more continuity. Mainly The Silurians, and the Weeping Angels, but also The Alliance (which also featured Torchwood and SJA enemies too, maintaining the continuity between shows.), and the Judoon/Silurians/Sontarans in AGMGTW, along with the Ood (being even more creepy than before) in The Doctors Wife.
6. Has introduced more creepy villains, apart from the Weeping Angels - mainly The Silence, and The Headless Monks. The concept of both are horrific and unnerving.
7.The Doctors Wife. Need I say more?
8. Has created some seriously good 'reveals', that no one anticipated - Amy being revealed as Flesh at the end of TAP and waking up with Kovarian staring at her, telling her to push, The River reveal, The Doctors death (included because it would have been amazing if the spoiler picture hadn't been released a few days early - not Moffats fault), the Brigadiers death mention (truly moving), Mels regeneration in LKH and the little girls' in DotM.

1) Bet episode he's done even if it has some problems. True
2) His Daleks are just silly. Yep, but the intention was there, as I've said - not his fault the public didn't like them, and he's bringing back the old one's anyway, proving that he does listen to us. However, I do think that with some work on the design, they could work. The different ranks idea is great, I think!
3) Has yet to really establish this on screen. With the whole "Invasion-style" Cyberships, an empire across space, and the removal of the C logo, it's fair to say, they're not Cybus. We're meant to assume it, we don't need to be spoon fed info all the time
4) This is nothing new that hasn't been done before. With UNIT in the 60's/70's I guess, I just meant, for the new series
5) Okay point for him here!
6) See I don't find anything interesting about the Silence... especially now that we know that's not truly their name... The headless monks, well come on they don't make sense and I doubt we'll ever get an explanation of them and how they function. If you throw something in for shock value it's not good writing.See point 3 about not needing to be spoon fed answers. It's better that way, because we don't have to know every single detail. The ideas are there, so we can think what we like of them.
7) He had nothing to do with that according to Neil Gaiman. If you say so. I was under the impression that the executive producer gave an outline for a story, then gave it to the writer to work on... But hey, I could be wrong
8) The Amy thing was good, point to him... River, everything about this one is dumb... He gets a point for mention of Brigadier's passing... Mel was dumb too... and so was the whole astronaut thing. Ridiculous. In your opinion. Most people I've spoken to, loved them!

So... what we have is someone who A) has some interesting ideas.... B) has zero ability to execute...Not entierly true and C) writes dialog from Hell. Again not usually true

He took his angels and ruined them. Really? I thought they were great in TToA/FaS - the recorded angel scene was amazing! TGC's appearence wasn't too good though... I'll give you that They went from uber creepy to... oh yawn... look... another lame maniacal monster.

[van Statten]

Absolutely! Those designs are what make his Daleks silly... colors, ranks and everything awesome but hey... if I can't stand looking at them, what does it all matter then? Their design is terrible and it also makes the painting unbearable. Oddly enough they make for rather cool and fun toys but on screen they are a visual joke.

Gaimen doesn't work unless he has utter freedom for his story telling. The Ood, the other world, Idris, Uncle, the Time Lord cube and everything else... all his idea.

Sure we don't need to be spoon fed BUT those two things are rather important. Maybe not so much the Cybermen... because without clarification on screen it's still fan speculation. But the name of the Silence aliens... sorry that's not being spoon fed... That's wanting to know about something that has potential to be interesting... unless there's plans of divulging their names later.

Anyone whose taken a beginner's course in Film can tell you his execution is terrible! He works better in smaller scenarios like two-parters. When he tries to make something as expansive as a plot that covers more than a few episodes he fails. To say he's not that good is a bit much because his other stuff is great. I love his Coupling and even his Jekyll was one of my favorite spins on Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde... but his Doctor Who... to me it's just another terrible time in the show's history.

[KarenGillanFan]

Absolutely! Those designs are what make his Daleks silly... colors, ranks and everything awesome but hey... if I can't stand looking at them, what does it all matter then? Their design is terrible and it also makes the painting unbearable. Oddly enough they make for rather cool and fun toys but on screen they are a visual joke.

Gaimen doesn't work unless he has utter freedom for his story telling. The Ood, the other world, Idris, Uncle, the Time Lord cube and everything else... all his idea.

Sure we don't need to be spoon fed BUT those two things are rather important. Maybe not so much the Cybermen... because without clarification on screen it's still fan speculation. But the name of the Silence aliens... sorry that's not being spoon fed... That's wanting to know about something that has potential to be interesting... unless there's plans of divulging their names later.

Anyone whose taken a beginner's course in Film can tell you his execution is terrible! He works better in smaller scenarios like two-parters. When he tries to make something as expansive as a plot that covers more than a few episodes he fails. To say he's not that good is a bit much because his other stuff is great. I love his Coupling and even his Jekyll was one of my favorite spins on Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde... but his Doctor Who... to me it's just another terrible time in the show's history.

I don't recall Gaiman inventing the Ood.

[van Statten]

No but he used it on his own... no one said "Hey Neil put an Ood in there"

I'm sorry sometimes I forget I have to be literal for you kiddos... "All his ideas to use" or whatever you want it to sound like.

[KarenGillanFan]

No but he used it on his own... no one said "Hey Neil put an Ood in there"

Well, there may well have been a nod from somebody about the Ood, because he was originally going to use something on a much bigger scale, but because they had already blown the budget, they needed something low-scale, that could work under hypnosis, etc - so resorted to the Ood.