A Discussion about the Valeyard and ToaTL

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DalekCheese
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Re: A Discussion about the Valeyard and ToaTL

Post by DalekCheese » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:42 pm

Valeyard wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:25 pm
Back on topic, if you please?

The theory of alternate incarnations depending on events taking place is certainly interesting, and could be valid, but I don’t think it’s how the Valeyard came to be. Again, he’s an amalgamation, not a legitimate incarnation. Until an alternate explanation comes from the show or Big Finish, it’ll stay that way.
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Re: A Discussion about the Valeyard and ToaTL

Post by SJF » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:17 pm

Big Finish currently have three, maybe four potential explanations for how the Valeyard might have come into being, although they do stress that the Valeyard was probably lying as well.

1. Trial of the Valeyard
He came into being when the Thirteenth Doctor was experimenting with how to break the regeneration limit on the planet Etarho. He was a “Time tot” when created and was found by the inhabitants of the planet, who sent him back to Gallifrey. The Time Lords basically discovered that he had the same biodata as the Doctor meaning he was the same person, but he was also a physically separate entity meaning he’s a temporal anomaly. They sent him to a Shadow House, which housed the results of dodgy regenerations. He proceeded to study the science of regeneration and vowed to steal the Doctor’s regenerations. It’s probably not true at all though.

2. The Brink of Death
According to Genesta, he was created by the Time Lords using black ops technology to be used as a weapon. However Genesta was revealed to have been the Valeyard all along and he was probably lying about that as well.

3. Every Dark Thought
The Valeyard told Bernice Summerfield that he had splintered from the Doctor at some point before his final incarnation as a causal imbalance, meaning he only had one life and could not regenerate. Benny didn’t consider him to be a true incarnation of the Doctor and basically said that he was “a twisted little fragment that just fell off the back of a lorry." The Valeyard also said he would always be the Doctor's future and that he could not be averted, only postponed. I reckon this account of his origin is the most likely to be true.

4. The War Valeyard (Bonus Round)
During the Time War, The Valeyard comes into existence after the Doctor uses a dodgy prototype transmat while carrying a dodgy prototype genetic manipulator. He’s then found by the Time Lords Who stabilise his existence. It’s made clear though that it was potluck that the Valeyard came into existence and it could have been any other Doctor as he was created from the Doctor’s DNA and memories. So maybe this is the Valeyard’s origin in the post-Time War New Who Timeline and the Original Valeyard might have just never come into existence in the New Who Timeline, just the potential future of the Classic Who Timeline.
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Re: A Discussion about the Valeyard and ToaTL

Post by Doctor What » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:23 pm

My god he's like the Joker, a real "multiple choice" origin. That Benny one doesn't expand too much on what we already know from Trial, although I do like the "inevitable" aspect.

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Re: A Discussion about the Valeyard and ToaTL

Post by skifflebits » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:46 pm

Valeyard wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:25 pm
The theory of alternate incarnations depending on events taking place is certainly interesting, and could be valid, but I don’t think it’s how the Valeyard came to be. Again, he’s an amalgamation, not a legitimate incarnation. Until an alternate explanation comes from the show or Big Finish, it’ll stay that way.
I am in 100% agreement until the words "...or Big Finish."

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Re: A Discussion about the Valeyard and ToaTL

Post by skifflebits » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:50 pm

SJF wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:17 pm
3. Every Dark Thought
The Valeyard told Bernice Summerfield that he had splintered from the Doctor at some point before his final incarnation as a causal imbalance, meaning he only had one life and could not regenerate. Benny didn’t consider him to be a true incarnation of the Doctor and basically said that he was “a twisted little fragment that just fell off the back of a lorry." The Valeyard also said he would always be the Doctor's future and that he could not be averted, only postponed. I reckon this account of his origin is the most likely to be true.
Indeed, this does seem most in line with what we originally learned about the Valyard.

Though as I think about it, maybe that's precisely because it's so vague.

But it does fit in with that idea of an amalgam somewhere between incarnations. And it doesn't involve some wonky use of technology, which seems more poetically apt.
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Re: A Discussion about the Valeyard and ToaTL

Post by skifflebits » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:50 pm

Whoops. Double post. Please delete.

Or just enjoy this photo of Tom Baker.
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