Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

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CaptainJimiPie
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Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby CaptainJimiPie » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:12 pm

Please excuse the large resolution of the pictures here but I wanted to try and get as much detail shown as possible!

With the new B&M sets coming soon featuring some interesting variants there has been renewed debate about whether CO "kit bash"/swap out parts of figures or not for new variants.

After doing some research I have come to the conclusion that they do and I thought as I found my findings quite interesting I'd post them all for you here.

Firstly lets start off with a something simple and recent. The upcoming Fourth Doctor B&M set.
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This set features both a new Brigadier variant but also a repaint of the Auton figure, both of which use the Series 1 Captain Jack figure as a base. However the Auton figure has the new neck scarf and belt buckle both of which are part of the full torso sculpt and but has also had removed the raised RAF wings over the right jacket pocket and also had the epaulets removed.

Also the new Tom Baker figure has a brand new shirt front and given that the Third Doctor figure is used as a base this either means, they've created a new shirt piece to fit into the front of the torso OR they've adapted the third Doctor Jacket sculpt to included a new shirt front OR they've completely remain the Third Doctor torso piece entirely!

So that is proof that they can adapt existing sculpts to make new figures...that happens, but what about using base figures with new separate parts?

Well here is an Ainley Master alongside what was previously a Series 3 Saxon Master, but that I have repainted.
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Now at first glance they might look the different but lets look at some of the finer sculpted details.
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Notice how not only do the creases on the hem of the trousers legs all line up as identical but also the the creases on the arms and the sleeve buttons.

So this proves that CO have reused a base figure for both a classic and new series figure, but it still goes further than that when you look at the front of the figures
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Contrary to popular belief the waistcoat on the Ainley figure IS NOT part of the torso sculpt, it's actually part of the suit sculpt, attached to one side but with a couple of holes that fit into sculpted pegs on the other underside of the jacket to hold it together, I have taken a couple of these apart so I can confirm this to be true.
At this point I should say as well that the orange handkerchief in the Saxon Master pocket has been sculpted on so ignore that but again looking from the front you can see alot of differences, The Saxon Master body also has an extra pocket on the left hand side, and the Ainley Master (as well as the waistcoat) only has one pocket and also a black handkerchief in the top pocket...so a completely different sculpt right?...wrong!...well sort of
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If we look at the back of the jackets you can clearly see that all the creases match up! This means that like the Auton/Captain Jack figures, CO must have adapted the Saxon jacket sculpt for the Ainley Master.

Overall this leads me to two conclusions :

1. CO produced a whole batch of Saxon Master figures, and a separate batch of JUST Ainley suit jackets and head, at which point they discarded the Saxon Master heads and jackets...this seems very unlikely as given CO's "save money at every corner" possibility I can't believe they would waist time casting parts only to throw them away!

OR

2. The moulds for figures are "sections" that is to say, they can be swapped out, now to me this seems more likely. Whilst not Doctor Who I found a picture of a Han Solo mould which proves my point
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Notice how it's just the torso, which means arms legs etc MUST be a separate block. So I'd imagine there is an overall frame which blocks are inserted into at which point the plastic is pumped into the mould and it flowed into each "section". In turn this means that not only can only specific parts be cast but also new moulds can be swapped out in the place of existing ones.
In this instance swapping out the Saxon Master head and suit jacket for an Ainley one, or looking at the Auton/Brig figure just swapping out the torso and head sections.

I'm sure people will still turn around and say they don't do it but I'm not sure how much more proof you need that they do, but more to the point of posting this, when you look at it like this you realise how many more great variants they could make without making brand new parts, or atleast making minimum new parts!

HubertBonisseur
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby HubertBonisseur » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:44 pm

What you're describing isn't "kitbashing" per se. But it's something that's been explained many times already on various DW forums among others.

Toolings can be adapted in limited ways, either by modifying the tooling itself (which means that only minor changes can be made) or if the tooling has parts that can be swapped. So, depending on how the tooling has been made, you can replace a head or a waistcoat or the feet of a character. You can even slightly alter the sculpt.

That's how you transform a captain Jack into an Auton or a Brig, or how you transforme a Sharaz jek into a Human Axon, or even use Abby from Primeval to create a Bill figure. That's also how you can get multiple versions of a figure using the same tooling (Ace, Jo, the Brig, 10th Doctor and many others).

What you can't do is take random pieces of figures to kitbash a new figure if the toolings haven't been designed that way.

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Deborah J
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby Deborah J » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:05 pm

And is it just me or does the tom baker figure in that set look really like a jon pertwee figure?
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CaptainJimiPie
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby CaptainJimiPie » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:12 pm

HubertBonisseur wrote:What you're describing isn't "kitbashing" per se. But it's something that's been explained many times already on various DW forums among others.

Toolings can be adapted in limited ways, either by modifying the tooling itself (which means that only minor changes can be made) or if the tooling has parts that can be swapped. So, depending on how the tooling has been made, you can replace a head or a waistcoat or the feet of a character. You can even slightly alter the sculpt.

That's how you transform a captain Jack into an Auton or a Brig, or how you transforme a Sharaz jek into a Human Axon, or even use Abby from Primeval to create a Bill figure. That's also how you can get multiple versions of a figure using the same tooling (Ace, Jo, the Brig, 10th Doctor and many others).

What you can't do is take random pieces of figures to kitbash a new figure if the toolings haven't been designed that way.


That's why I put kitbashing in quotes, because my understanding of it was as you say, taking random parts (from something completely different at times) to make a new figure but I have some some people use the term kit bashing in regards to saying they can't just use random parts from their own existing figures/moulds...which they can clearly.

I suppose a better term would be "internal kit bashing" haha but you understand my point?
In regards to them reusing figures and moulds to create new figures with altered or new parts it's obvious just looking at the existing figures that they DO do that...so I find it odd when people say they don't. And also that a mould is just all one solid piece rather than separate pieces that can be swapped out to change parts over.

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Doctor What
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby Doctor What » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:45 pm

Deborah J wrote:And is it just me or does the tom baker figure in that set look really like a jon pertwee figure?

Yep it's a Jon Pertwee body. Although for some reason they used the "boot" legs and just painted half of the boots grey, rather than using the actual trousered legs.
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Koth
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby Koth » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:35 pm

Two figures that were all new sculpts which didn't kitbash and could have were the Star Wars Imperial Gunner and AT-ST Driver. Two that did were the OTC Imperial Dignitaries.

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idontremembermylogin
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby idontremembermylogin » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:37 pm

CaptainJimiPie wrote: If we look at the back of the jackets you can clearly see that all the creases match up! This means that like the Auton/Captain Jack figures, CO must have adapted the Saxon jacket sculpt for the Ainley Master.

And - after just getting a Series 3 Master for the first time in the last few weeks - the copyright on the John Simm Master's foot is dated 1973 as opposed to 2006/07.
Yes you're right, they don't even sell Doctor Who figures in Dubai.

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Doctor What
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby Doctor What » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:42 pm

idontremembermylogin wrote:
CaptainJimiPie wrote: If we look at the back of the jackets you can clearly see that all the creases match up! This means that like the Auton/Captain Jack figures, CO must have adapted the Saxon jacket sculpt for the Ainley Master.

And - after just getting a Series 3 Master for the first time in the last few weeks - the copyright on the John Simm Master's foot is dated 1973 as opposed to 2006/07.

That's a very odd year, not even his debut year since that was 1971.
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idontremembermylogin
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby idontremembermylogin » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Doctor What wrote:
idontremembermylogin wrote:
CaptainJimiPie wrote: If we look at the back of the jackets you can clearly see that all the creases match up! This means that like the Auton/Captain Jack figures, CO must have adapted the Saxon jacket sculpt for the Ainley Master.

And - after just getting a Series 3 Master for the first time in the last few weeks - the copyright on the John Simm Master's foot is dated 1973 as opposed to 2006/07.

That's a very odd year, not even his debut year since that was 1971.


Whoops you're right - it's 1971
Yes you're right, they don't even sell Doctor Who figures in Dubai.

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CaptainJimiPie
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Re: Character Options DOES "kitbash" figures!

Postby CaptainJimiPie » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:16 pm

idontremembermylogin wrote:
Doctor What wrote:
idontremembermylogin wrote:And - after just getting a Series 3 Master for the first time in the last few weeks - the copyright on the John Simm Master's foot is dated 1973 as opposed to 2006/07.

That's a very odd year, not even his debut year since that was 1971.


Whoops you're right - it's 1971


Again proving that they've reused the same base figure mould for the Saxon figure as the Ainley figures also had the same copyright markings and date on the base of the foot, although this also presents and interesting point.

The Ainley Master figure was an exclusive release to SDCC 2010 and later FP and the figure itself was from a 1981 episode, however the Saxon Master figure was released in 2007/2008 and whilst I could be wrong, after checking the creases and shoe style, I don't believe that base sculpt was used for any other new or classic figures...

The 1971 I'm guessing references the first appearance of the Master character in Terror Of The Autons but it does mean possibly mean they had originally planned the Ainley release first before the Saxon one but it got pushed back until 2010?? Especially as the other new series Master figures feature dates in line ( more or less) with the program at the time.


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