The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Anything About Doctor Who *Caution Spoilers*
DalekCheese
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by DalekCheese »

;)

Feel free to make further requests,
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Gek2Win
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by Gek2Win »

A Dalek full of cheeses.
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DalekCheese
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

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Happy to oblige.
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skifflebits
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by skifflebits »

People made of smoke and cities made of song?
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DalekCheese
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by DalekCheese »

Yes, but you’ll have to wait ‘till tomorrow. It’s getting late.
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Whovastron
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by Whovastron »

So thanks to finally getting a tv with britbox on it. I’ve been watching a lot of the 5th Doctor. I’m finding a new love for this era, the way each story bleeds into the next. The characterisation of the Doctor is also very interesting, particularly his relationship with Adric. It’s clear that he doesn’t like Adric, but there’s never really a end to their arc, the Doctor never gets to show Adric how much he does appreciate him, and Adric never gets the appreciation he deserves. He just dies. And then when the Doctor meets another young troublemaker, Turlough, he is way too trusting and is seemingly trying to make up for how harsh he was with Adric. And at the end of his life this Doctor’s final thought is how he failed him. And then you get Tegan, who leaves because she simply stops enjoying it, because there’s too much death. This is a damn cracking era of the show and I think I’m gonna do a chronological rewatch from Castrovalva to Caves

Spannerintheworks
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by Spannerintheworks »

Whovastron wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:58 pm
So thanks to finally getting a tv with britbox on it. I’ve been watching a lot of the 5th Doctor. I’m finding a new love for this era, the way each story bleeds into the next. The characterisation of the Doctor is also very interesting, particularly his relationship with Adric. It’s clear that he doesn’t like Adric, but there’s never really a end to their arc, the Doctor never gets to show Adric how much he does appreciate him, and Adric never gets the appreciation he deserves. He just dies. And then when the Doctor meets another young troublemaker, Turlough, he is way too trusting and is seemingly trying to make up for how harsh he was with Adric. And at the end of his life this Doctor’s final thought is how he failed him. And then you get Tegan, who leaves because she simply stops enjoying it, because there’s too much death. This is a damn cracking era of the show and I think I’m gonna do a chronological rewatch from Castrovalva to Caves
There's an audio story which is spectacular for doing what the show then never would've done: Discuss Adric post-Earthshock. Brilliantly, Tegan outright asks the Doctor if he even liked him.

There are some triumphs in there (I like "Four to Doomsday", even though most don't seem to.), but it's beats like the last paragraph lacking that betray the era most. A modern TV show would NEVER just sweep Turlough's duplicity away as they do....or not let Tegan declare she was RIGHT about him. Nyssa is nowhere near as upset with the Master being Dead Tremas as she should be, and the Adric-5 dynamic is all in the details, where a heart to heart with Tegan where he makes clear that he seemed to "get along with 4, and then 5" bookended by a scene similar to the prior audio one would help things immensely. And I don't feel this is fannish wishing, ANY drama serial would mine these character beats, not just let them pass.

And not to go all New Series, but if you're going to have the Master show up almost as regularly as the Pertwee era, you're going to need to have some reasoning behind his motive or character beyond "is bad". Moffat knew it, and even Chibnall twigged on to that. Ainley seems more vital in "The Five Doctors", and I realized that it probably is that for the first time since "Castrovalva" his motivations and reason for being there is clear. Contrast with "Planet of Fire", where he suddenly....is there because he's bad at being the Master, basically, and needs a bailout.

What I love about late Davison era in particular is that the show and character both seem to realize that this traditional Doctor approach (Throw himself into a debacle and be somehow terribly British and anarchic about solving it) is not really working with the present (or for TV's sake, then-modern) problems. "Warriors" sees him tackle the cold war and everyone ends up dead. "Resurrection" sees him as too trusting (of Davros, Stein) and death results to the point Tegan checks out. "Planet of Fire" sees a tough situation get worse because of his problems/enemy and his diplomacy worsens things. And "Androzani" sees him try to have a Tom Baker like devil-may-care outing and it tears a planetary government and economy apart with multiple deaths and Peri just surviving. The moral? There's still a place for the Doctor in the universe, but there's got to be some changes for him to be effective. Intentional or not, it's apt for the character and the show itself at the time.
Last edited by Spannerintheworks on Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SJF
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by SJF »

Warzone / Conversion is just 👌

I can’t wait for Five’s Main Range stories this year. They continue the arc and it’s 6 stories spread over 4 releases, with the finale being a Dalek story.
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Spannerintheworks
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by Spannerintheworks »

SJF wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:09 am
Warzone / Conversion is just 👌
That's the one! And yeah, if you remove that Tegan-5 discussion that story's merit goes down. But I think more than any era of the show, 5 & crew definitely suffer from not having a good televised talk. Six and Peri outright clash and develop, Ace gets put through the wringer, but meanwhile on 5's TARDIS...

*A regular's close relative is killed by the Doctor's close adversary.
*3 regular companions witness Regeneration
*1 regular companion sees her father, then family, then homeworld extinguished.
*Same companion has multiple encounters with the man who killed her father as he literally wears his face and speaks in his voice
*One of 3 regular companions DIES, the other 2 watch the Doctor unable to stop it.
*The Doctor ditches one regular, then picks her back up at the other conpanion's urging.
*A Male companion is shifty and a companion doesn't trust him, & she's right a he's trying to kill the Doctor.

And with the exception of the Regeneration, most of these are handled with ONE line of dialogue or single sentence exchanges. Often, the Doctor has little or nothing to say about it. Mind blowing.

To wit, imagine handling the following with a sentence and not grounding a story or arc about it:

*Jackie Tyler is murdered by the Master.
*The "Stolen Earth" Regeneration introduces Matt Smith.
*Martha watches her father murdered by the Master, then her entire family are killed and Earth's populace wiped out. The Master speaks in her father's voice after killing him. The Doctor can't reset it.
*Martha keeps encountering the Master in her father's guise.
*Rory is killed permanently, Amy remembers it and the Doctor claims he can't change it.
*The Doctor ...oh wait. "The Girl Who Waited" fits here, and it's a messy, emotional affair. The Doctor literally lies and alienates his companions to resolve the situation.
*Rory tries to kill the Doctor on merits he believes may be true, Amy finds out.

Seriously, fit and scan 5's "TARDIS issues" onto the new Series, and you'd all be in therapy from this show. Hence my stance: No era of the show short shifts its characters as badly as 5's, Doctor included.

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skifflebits
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Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by skifflebits »

Spannerintheworks wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:37 pm
And with the exception of the Regeneration, most of these are handled with ONE line of dialogue or single sentence exchanges. Often, the Doctor has little or nothing to say about it. Mind blowing.
Yeah, the Davison era didn't exactly feature the most... um... "emotionally grounded" character writing.

Love the observations, Spanner. Keep 'em coming.

(Even if I don't strictly agree with all of 'em. :) )
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