The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Anything About Doctor Who *Caution Spoilers*
ANewWatchBegins
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:31 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by ANewWatchBegins »

I've been rewatching all of Doctor Who for about a year now, I kind of ended up stopped dead in my tracks for a while because I was so busy but the past few weeks I've had a bit more time on my hands, to say the least, and I'm struggling to focus on anything actually production like the mountain of uni work I have to be doing so I've been watching a lot of Who. I'm filling in quite a few gaps and revisiting stuff that I haven't watched in years, so that is really nice to do.

I had an extremely vivd dream last night that they'd announced they were animating Evil of the Daleks and I have to say I've been absolutely gutted when I realised I'd just dreamed it.

User avatar
skifflebits
Posts: 2587
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by skifflebits »

ANewWatchBegins wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:53 pm
I've been rewatching all of Doctor Who for about a year now, I kind of ended up stopped dead in my tracks for a while because I was so busy but the past few weeks I've had a bit more time on my hands, to say the least, and I'm struggling to focus on anything actually production like the mountain of uni work I have to be doing so I've been watching a lot of Who. I'm filling in quite a few gaps and revisiting stuff that I haven't watched in years, so that is really nice to do.

I had an extremely vivd dream last night that they'd announced they were animating Evil of the Daleks and I have to say I've been absolutely gutted when I realised I'd just dreamed it.
Give it time... Oh, give it time...

Where are you in the series? A chronological viewing run is something I've never had the guts to try.
Image

Spannerintheworks
Posts: 1005
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:08 am

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by Spannerintheworks »

skifflebits wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:27 am
Spannerintheworks wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:37 pm
And with the exception of the Regeneration, most of these are handled with ONE line of dialogue or single sentence exchanges. Often, the Doctor has little or nothing to say about it. Mind blowing.
Yeah, the Davison era didn't exactly feature the most... um... "emotionally grounded" character writing.

Love the observations, Spanner. Keep 'em coming.

(Even if I don't strictly agree with all of 'em. :) )
Thanks, and I mean, it's boring if we all agree. :) I enjoy when someone throws something out there that's kinda "Hey this fits and there's TV evidence to support it" because for every firm fact the show has (Regeneration limit in Deadly Assassin, 11's regeneration was the end of his perceived limit, Blinovitch concept) there are others that are wildly subjective (The Time War's "lock", the Jack = Face of Boe conundrum, UNIT timeline....I could go all day.)

I did a chronological rewatch once, right as Capaldi got going. It really made me appreciate a couple things:

*1's TARDIS crew chemistry, even as Vicki and Steven show up they strive to have human interaction that seems...natural.
*3's era character arcs are feast or famine. Jo Grant gets such development, and meanwhile the Brig....well, I guess it's repressed PTSD if "Mawdryn" is to be believed. (Or you accepted "Downtime" as canon.)
*4 has the best standalone stories, full stop. I firmly believe it's why his era continues to appeal, a sequential rewatch is nice (especially for Season 13, which has more continuity than I remembered) but you can pop on "The Brain of Morbius" for a casual fan and they can keep up easy if they know the basics of the show.
*7 has such ambitious concepts, it's obvious the writers were eager to be on Doctor Who even if the rotating cast/production crew/BBC were less thrilled with it.
*Series 3 is a great jumping on point; Almost better than 1 or 2.
*Having read Davies' book, I never would've guessed he didn't plan 10's personal arc. (If you haven't, oh man - the original plan for Series 4 sounds like a dumpster fire that would've been as polarizing as Series 12!) And as daring as it is to make him such a flawed Doctor, it plays terribly on rewatch - It's like a grudging acceptance of his need to be better. No shade to Tennant though - he's clearly all in. And I appreciate the daring, but man - what a confused era. Fun for the whole family....with the most flawed, ego-driven, damaged Doctor ever. Yay?


...and I also realized other less positive things...

*The Second Doctor and 5th era both have little regard to character arc. I ranted about 5 but love 2's era and crew as I do if Troughton and Hines didn't love doing the show as much as they did it'd be as bad as 5's with character consistency. Victoria has none, and Zoe gets great moments but has little regard for her past barring "The Mind Robber". And Ben and Polly....well, i feel like they played themselves. Certainly seems that way and with 2 and Jamie how were they ever gonna stand out? Rewatch really makes their being surplus obvious. (Which makes Troughton's weeks off obvious too, something which I only occasionally noticed with Hartnell.)
*All my goodwill for 6 comes from the audios. Rewatch hurts his era the most; the stories' weaknesses become glaring if you try to summarize them honestly. ("The Doctor and Peri happen upon the Master and the Rani in the 19th century and things are apparently bad offscreen, somehow. Bickering ensues.") And shoddy as the Trial writing and visuals are, everyone is suddenly trying much harder castwise.
*1984 through 89 are just depressing to watch in terms of production. It probably played better against "youth" TV or children's genre shows of the time but when you consider what the 80's versions of 1960's shows (Star Trek, The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits) were getting in terms of production and writing then, Who looks so dire.
*The TV movie is so obviously the same crew/location that made mid 90s X-Files that it almost fits in better with a marathon of that show.
*Matt Smith does better when he seems to know what's going on. (Confirmed by the man himself at a convention I attended later.) So he nails Series 5 and 7a, but seems less assured/tempered in 6 and 7b.
*I love "Day of the Doctor", but on rewatch the "Name of the Doctor" cliffhanger seems like the most frustrating "Oh yeah, sorted that offscreen" ever. (Which, knowing the behind the scenes MESS that happened, I can be forgiving of it)
*Everything "Time of the Doctor" wanted me to feel, Matt Smith's "Deep Breath" cameo did 100× better.
*I love Capaldi, I love his era and arc, and honestly I love the 12-era Clara better than any Davies era companion. But man, the last 5 minutes of "Kill the Moon" drop the ball so hard for me. Rewatching with the caliber of episodes around it only makes this worse. Watch Series 8 without it and man, does everything play more positively.

User avatar
skifflebits
Posts: 2587
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by skifflebits »

Nice observations. I haven't watched the new series in a marathon in ages, so I can't speak to "Kill the Moon." I always thought the whole story was just a huge stretch just to get to that moment between the Doctor and Clara where he walks off. But the rest of Capaldi's era I really like. Series 10 is in my top three of the whole New Series.

QUESTION: How does the end of "Time of the Doctor" play in terms of solving the "missing Gallifrey" arc set up in "Day of the Doctor?" I recall it not making a whole lot of sense on first watch, then I read an explanation on line a few years later and asked myself, "Wait, how did I miss that?"
Image

User avatar
skifflebits
Posts: 2587
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by skifflebits »

Oh, and I agree about Six's era. Just a painful slog. I lay a lot of it on Saward's doorstep, honestly, but he wasn't helped in the least by the directors. To this day I find "Vengeance on Varos" to be so profoundly over-rated I can barely stand it.
Image

Spannerintheworks
Posts: 1005
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:08 am

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by Spannerintheworks »

skifflebits wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:02 pm
QUESTION: How does the end of "Time of the Doctor" play in terms of solving the "missing Gallifrey" arc set up in "Day of the Doctor?" I recall it not making a whole lot of sense on first watch, then I read an explanation on line a few years later and asked myself, "Wait, how did I miss that?"
I used to struggle with "Time of the Doctor"; I left my "Matt Smith in "Deep Breath" is better" to acknowledge that. I honestly feel like until Clara pops in on the wardrobe/Fish fingers regen prep it's still a mess. It has too much to do, if it was just 11 defending Trenzalore against his myriad of enemies it'd be better. Even then it's....a lot.

On comprehensive rewatch the Gallifrey angle is....forgivable? The odd thing about "Time" & "Day" is it's unclear how much time has passed. Clara implies not much, but 11 makes it seem like he's been knocking about a bit. 11 defending what is clearly a link to a surviving Gallifrey with such zeal fits well, but the execution around it less so.

When I learned Steven Moffat expected another year of Matt Smith, I kinda forgave a lot more of the "Gotta resolve everything" elements of "Time". It would've made a better season arc, for sure.

User avatar
skifflebits
Posts: 2587
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by skifflebits »

Spannerintheworks wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:01 pm
When I learned Steven Moffat expected another year of Matt Smith, I kinda forgave a lot more of the "Gotta resolve everything" elements of "Time". It would've made a better season arc, for sure.
Oh, I hadn't realized everyone thought Smith would hang on one more year. Yeah, given that, the rushed ending is almost forgivable.

Seriously, I was expecting a whole series devoted to just tracking down Gallifrey.
Image

ANewWatchBegins
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:31 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by ANewWatchBegins »

skifflebits wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:26 pm
ANewWatchBegins wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:53 pm
I've been rewatching all of Doctor Who for about a year now, I kind of ended up stopped dead in my tracks for a while because I was so busy but the past few weeks I've had a bit more time on my hands, to say the least, and I'm struggling to focus on anything actually production like the mountain of uni work I have to be doing so I've been watching a lot of Who. I'm filling in quite a few gaps and revisiting stuff that I haven't watched in years, so that is really nice to do.

I had an extremely vivd dream last night that they'd announced they were animating Evil of the Daleks and I have to say I've been absolutely gutted when I realised I'd just dreamed it.
Give it time... Oh, give it time...

Where are you in the series? A chronological viewing run is something I've never had the guts to try.
I'm watching The Macra Terror for the first time! I've sped through the past week or so now I'm in lockdown but before that it was taking me forever. I think I watched 23 episodes in one day on Monday, it's been a wild one.
Spannerintheworks wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:22 pm

*The Second Doctor and 5th era both have little regard to character arc. I ranted about 5 but love 2's era and crew as I do if Troughton and Hines didn't love doing the show as much as they did it'd be as bad as 5's with character consistency. Victoria has none, and Zoe gets great moments but has little regard for her past barring "The Mind Robber". And Ben and Polly....well, i feel like they played themselves. Certainly seems that way and with 2 and Jamie how were they ever gonna stand out? Rewatch really makes their being surplus obvious. (Which makes Troughton's weeks off obvious too, something which I only occasionally noticed with Hartnell.)
Something I've been noticing the past few stories is that the TARDIS Team is a bit of a mess. It's clear from the War Machines that the producers have kind of given up on character being one of the main focuses - Dodo's vanishing act kind of shows that. But it's really clear once Jamie comes on board that it was a last minute decision. The team always suffers in the stories following it - one of them gets nothing to do, one of them parrots another or their characterisation just goes completely. I feel like Polly has most noticeably changed character over the stories. I'd say she has a lot more agency and life to her in The War Machines but by the time we get to her later stories she kind of reverts to that role of 'screaming female companion' with not a whole lot else to her, which is such a shame.

I really enjoy this TARDIS team, they clearly interact well with one another, they're great actors and if they'd been written well and consistently characterised then they could be a real dream team, but sadly you don't quite get that.

ANewWatchBegins
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:31 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by ANewWatchBegins »

skifflebits wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:02 pm
Spannerintheworks wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:01 pm
When I learned Steven Moffat expected another year of Matt Smith, I kinda forgave a lot more of the "Gotta resolve everything" elements of "Time". It would've made a better season arc, for sure.
Oh, I hadn't realized everyone thought Smith would hang on one more year. Yeah, given that, the rushed ending is almost forgivable.

Seriously, I was expecting a whole series devoted to just tracking down Gallifrey.
I never realised this either, this was one of my least favourite era's personally, and I'd taken quite a big step back from the show so I was unaware of all this, but a lot of things make sense knowing that. I might need to read up on everything that was going on at this time!

DalekCheese
Posts: 4867
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:54 pm

Re: The Over-Encompassing Classic Series Thread (1963-1989 +1996 +Books, Comics, etc.)

Post by DalekCheese »

skifflebits wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:50 pm
People made of smoke and cities made of song?
Damn good song, too.

Image
Image

Post Reply