Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Spannerintheworks »

SJF wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:32 am
I feel like the Whittaker era so far has been consistently stronger in terms of individual stories, but it completely falls flat on character arcs/development and any kind of story arc.

Like we’ve got stories such as Rosa, Demons of the Punjab, It Takes You Away, Can You Hear Me? and The Haunting of Villa Diodati which would all probably be absolute classics if they appeared in any other era but because the main characters are so generic it makes it more difficult to connect to the story.
THIS. I couldn't agree more. These stories all have great ideas or innovations, but fall flat for precisely those reasons for me too. This 100% elevates Smith and Capaldi's eras for me regardless of the odd dodgy episode; My friends who got into Smith and tried to watch S11 & 12 took the show to task by saying they knew more about Amy, Rory, Clara or even Bill than Ryan or Yaz. And in Bill's case they've had twice as long to know Ryan, Yaz, and Graham. (One actually said to me "Wait they might leave? They haven't really done anything." In terms of character growth/arc, she's not entirely wrong.) In fact, one noted Series 12 to them was like a full year of the "Impossible Girl" arc: a decent 'twist' that executes at the expense of character development. (I don't entirely agree but I admit the lacking characterization does have similarities)

Other relevant comments from those friends:
(Orphan 55) "This is supposed to be scary? Ryan looks hungry."
(Jack comes back, episode ends) "What was he even for?"
(TARDIS reveal in "Judoon") "OMG, did the Doctor's timeline get rewritten? Is this a parallel earth?" (In retrospect, both would've made more sense at this point.)
(Graham gets lost in 'Villa') "Is he going to end up in a ventilation shaft too?" (I couldn't STOP laughing at that comment)

And - Someone commented this; Is it actually confirmed the Sea Devils were removed from "Praxeus"? Cause there's definitely a void left regardless of them being involved or no.

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SJF
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by SJF »

I still don’t quite understand why Yaz even exists to be honest. You could literally remove Yaz entirely from Series 11 and 12 and it’d have virtually no impact on the story.

That’s not to say Ryan and Graham are treated well either but at least you get the impression that they’re supposed to be there.
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TARDIS23
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by TARDIS23 »

I think the nail has been hit on the head. Who really cares about any of these characters? It’s mad they’ve had 21 episodes yet I personally have no investment in any of them and can’t see myself being bothered when they leave. Whereas I cared a lot about Martha, Donna and Bill who also had considerably less episodes than these three. Maybe it’s to do with having too many companions but maybe not I’ve always liked the idea of the Doctor having multiple companions but not all the time so they might pick up one of them for one adventure and the others for others kind of like a River/ Nardole situation. But in reality I think three companions is just too much to do any of them justice. There’s plenty of shows that have a lot larger regular casts but the difference is how many times are every single one in every episode and they don’t have new characters and world building to do every week like Who does either.

In regards to The Timeless Children thing it’s just all seems pointless, who really cares about the characters history that we’ve been fine without since 1963? I think finales should generally looks good setting up what’s going to happen next not what happened long ago it leads to a bit of a dead end and is meaningless.

Then there’s the thing with the Morbius doctors really wasn’t ever needed and just comes off to me as an idea Chibnall had years ago as a fan and saw an opportunity to make it real so did it for his own satisfaction. Then there’s the whole thing of well if the doctors immortal pretty much where’s the danger for the character anymore?

DalekCheese
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by DalekCheese »

Kaldor wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:51 am
greeneggsandspam wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:14 pm
DalekCheese wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:14 pm


Megabased.
great contribution well done
I’m assuming that’s sarcasm? I have seen a few similar posts so I just assumed that’s Dalekcheese’s post style. Whilst I, too, don’t agree with the post, if it was considered spam (which it could be on any other board), I’m guessing the mods of the board would probably remove it, so it might be best to leave it alone rather than approach it from your angle (and currently indeed my own) as we’re cluttering the thread and derailing it slightly.
This is a can of beans nobody wants reopened.
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SJF
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by SJF »

You say, as you reopen the can of beans.
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Doctor What
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Doctor What »

I refer you to my previous comment:
Doctor What wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:01 am
If you're going to reply, please make sure you're actually adding something, this is how threads get derailed. BOT please.

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Neon Wolf
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Neon Wolf »

DalekCheese no one is asking you for an essay with every post but something that at least moves the conversation forward or makes a point to the OP in some way is the minimum requirement. Three word posts or single emojis are just spam that break up the conversation and derail threads.
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DalekCheese
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by DalekCheese »

Neon Wolf wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:19 pm
DalekCheese no one is asking you for an essay with every post but something that at least moves the conversation forward or makes a point to the OP in some way is the minimum requirement. Three word posts or single emojis are just spam that break up the conversation and derail threads.
Entirely fair.

Edit: no, that was just two words... well, uh.... I didn’t have any real problem with The Timeless Child. It was meh overall, but I don’t mind the canon changes/additions. I agree that Yaz is basically just a cardboard cutout for the most part, but equally I think that Whittaker has a lot of potential, and I like the idea of more female doctors.
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Neon Wolf
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children"

Post by Neon Wolf »

Whovastron wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:22 pm
Since when has hbo funded Doctor who
Since they bought exclusive streaming rights to Doctor Who in America. I presume you're taking issue with my use of the word 'funded' because they're not directly financing Doctor Who but have a deal directly with the BBC for a 'package' of shows,
Under the deal, HBO Max has also licensed several hundred episodes of multiple other hit BBC shows, namely “The Office,” “Top Gear,” “Luther,” and “The Honorable Woman.”
If so I'd dispute this because the bottom line is the money the BBC acquire from HBO goes back into producing their productions including Doctor Who, so in the same way that the British tax payer is funding Doctor Who now HBO is contributing to that with their investment. These kinds of revenue streams are becoming far more important to the BBC as the licence fee looks to be going the way of the Dodo. It's not the only deal the BBC have been making either as they have also signed a deal with 'Shanghai Media Group Pictures' to expand the shows popularity in China.

They need to have new revenue streams coming in to offset the loss of the licence fee which is already in decline as people turn away from traditional media and that's before you take into account that not paying the fee will likely be decriminalised within the next few years. Who's going to pay it when you don't have to? Not me that's for sure and I'd imagine not many others either which leaves a massive financial hole that the BBC desperately needs to fill.

That's why it's so important to make a marketable product because if you have merch stagnating on shelves and only selling through B&M the licence that a company like CO has to pay to produce Doctor Who figures isn't worth a much which means the BBC can't charge as much for it. You can extrapolate this for all pieces of merch.

To tie this back to 'The Timeless Children' my point is that dumbing down the show and losing all the casual viewers and then throwing in a curve ball that will only annoy and divide the small group of hardcore fans you have left is not a good idea.
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Whovastron
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Re: Thoughts and Opinions on "The Timeless Children" (spoilers)

Post by Whovastron »

I think the show is on the way out. its very sad but it is what it is. It seems the current creative team, or any creative team after series 7, just don’t know how to market to the current audience

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