Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Anything About Doctor Who *Caution Spoilers*
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Deborah J
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by Deborah J »

Not a question but I think Noel Clarke is great
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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by Spannerintheworks »

TheSparrow wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:28 pm
Oh boys, I totally forgot to say, but Russell T Davies and Noel Clarke are in my industry week at my university. If I get into the talk, does anyone want questions asked?
Hmmm. If inclined, feel free to ask -

RTD: Curious to know; Was there ever a concept/project that you were interested in but felt budget/realization entirely put out of your reach? Or, one that you loved but didn't feel you were the right person for?

Clarke So, something completely different: You completely carry the Prodigy's "Invaders Must Die" video. Was it just another gig? A case where fan gets to work with/for musical artist? Was there much direction, or was it more loosely conceived?

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Bundesrat
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by Bundesrat »

RTD-1 - Does it hurt to see what it has become, and if asked, would you come to the rescue?

RTD-2 - Did you ever give any thought to what you’d do for a 50th anniversary episode? Would you have tried to include surviving classic Doctor actors in it?
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DalekCheese
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by DalekCheese »

Bundesrat wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:00 pm
RTD-1 - Does it hurt to see what it has become, and if asked, would you come to the rescue?
Shots fired 😂

Also I’m willing to bet that, regardless of his true feelings, he’s not going to say “yes” and actively insult Jodie/Chibnall/some random lighting director like that 😂
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skifflebits
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by skifflebits »

Bundesrat wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:00 pm
RTD-1 - Does it hurt to see what it has become, and if asked, would you come to the rescue?
And have you got your utility belt full of Deus Ex Machinas, kindergarten technobabble, and disposable crying towels at the ready?

:)
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skifflebits
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by skifflebits »

As a follow-up: At your age, do you still have the energy to write too many episodes per season while simultaneously producing the weakest scripts?

And would you also be willing to create a new spin-off where one of the heroes roofies a couple in a bar in episode one?

;)
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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by Spannerintheworks »

skifflebits wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:30 pm
As a follow-up: At your age, do you still have the energy to write too many episodes per season while simultaneously producing the weakest scripts?

And would you also be willing to create a new spin-off where one of the heroes roofies a couple in a bar in episode one?

;)
I mean, with the disclaimer I like a lot of what Davies has achieved and his consequent awareness of this has visibly extended to his writing as time has past, you're basically saying what makes me stare agape at the Davies era/Torchwood stans:

"You.....really don't have a problem with the fact that so many of these people are terrible with zero consequences (including particularly the 10th Doctor)? Or that these stories occasionally coast ENTIRELY on cast likability?"

A cool test: Sit someone down to watch Torchwood that has no base of who Jack is.

I did this; And the only sympathy they had by mid-season 1 was for Tosh, Rhys, and Ianto (though they admitted he probably should've been retconned & fired). And MAN, does Gwen hooking up with Owen really assume we like her enough to hurt Rhys. Or even just the implications of how they use retcon.

I wish there was a nice way to discuss Davies' growth with him, but it's hard to do so in an open forum without basic disrespect to him, especially given the conventions in humour and TV he happily was catering to at the time. (Again, given his recent work in "Years and Years" & "It's A Sin", I feel it's fair to say we'd not get, for example, 10 being such an unrepentant, unpunished ass to Martha or Rose lambasting 9 with "You're SO gay!" if he wrote S1-4 now.)

Spannerintheworks
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by Spannerintheworks »

Also -
skifflebits wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:30 pm
As a follow-up: At your age, do you still have the energy to write too many episodes per season while simultaneously producing the weakest scripts?
Considering that the original intent from Series 4 was the Doctor falls hopelessly and madly in love with his new companion (Not Donna, but Penny the reporter. Rewatch "Partners in Crime"), and that love is finally returned and realized (Can. You. IMAGINE. The furious Rose shippers??? :D), AND that that plan only was derailed when Catherine Tate, a bigger name, was secured as a returning regular cast member.....I'm going to say sometimes Davies just gets caught up in the audience machine. His strength and weakness was knowing what the general audience wanted (ie, reasons to love David Tennant, fan-pleasing legacy aliens, cast the audience could happily self identify or see themselves hang with) and his pursuit definitely made event TV but I'd argue it came at a cost when scrutinized.

It worked in reverse too. I'd argue his original 10 Regeneration story certainly wouldn't have been the "event" that a "Master-Time Lords-shove Wilf and Donna in" story was. He made the blockbuster. But, and it's a serious "What if", I'd charge his original wouldve aged better and had the same clout as "Midnight" and such. To wit:

10 arrives on a crippled spacecraft, with just a family on board begging for help. It's typical 10 bravado, until he realizes to save this whole family will cost him his life. He ultimately does so after initial hesitation of such a "small thing" bring him to Regeneration.

Not only a better end to 10's god complex/"Waters of Mars", but probably a better story/character redemption than "End of Time" in concept overall. I feel like the Davies removed from the machine/BBC expectations would likely agree, but we know what the man at the time did.

(All of these ideas are taken from Davies' own words in "The Writer's Tale")

It'd be cool to ask him about so much of this, but it's.....so difficult to phrase that without a "Ya blew it, huh?" implication. ;)

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skifflebits
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by skifflebits »

Honestly, when it comes to Davies, I'm happy to talk about the good along with the bad. But my RTD criticisms have their roots in a time when he was praised as an absolute genius. Meanwhile all of his shortcomings were on full display like a bloody nose on a beauty queen, but there was no pointing that out without getting piled on.

Seriously, the was a time when a certain segment of fandom thought the man could do no wrong.

The only modern comparison I can make is like trying to have a conversation with a Trump true-believer about... well... anything rooted in reality.
Last edited by skifflebits on Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spannerintheworks
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Re: Misc Doctor Who Topics That Don't Fit Anywhere Else

Post by Spannerintheworks »

skifflebits wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:04 pm
Seriously, the was a time when a certain segment of fandom thought the man could do no wrong.

The only modern comparison I can make is like trying to have a conversation with a Trump true-believer about... well... anything rooted in reality.
(Takes a deep breath)

Well, to be completely frank, have you noticed the REALLY aggro youtubers who attack the show, and particularly Chibnall 1) tend to make it political and attack "leftism" and 2) are usually ALSO the ones who feel it was best when it was Davies/Rose/10?

I'm not saying that Davies apologists are all right wing nuts. Not at all.

But I DO find it funny that the same people who think a "non biased review" of a 13th Doctor episode can consist of name calling, politic shaming, and disliking something independent of its actual merits also elevate the Tennant era to Deification, when it often fails in similar ways OR panders to its audience at the narrative's expense at the least.

So, coming full circle, your Trump namedropping is ironic, because there certainly IS a similarity in "LALALA IM NOT LISTENING" qualities and weirdly, it's a road that leads to some of the current show's most vocal (and less reason based) critics online.

And lastly:
Disclaimer: If I'm offending anyone's politics here, that's not my aim. I'm simply trying to note a weird correlation between more zealous 13 criticism, politics, and God-status given to the Davies era. Honestly, part of me feels it's people with an agenda trying to hijack their distaste for the current show by rallying people around a nostalgic/"popular" view of "when it was good" in comparison. Please don't presume I want to argue politics or look down on yours. That's another forum entirely, imo.

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