How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

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skifflebits
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by skifflebits »

Spannerintheworks wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:52 pm
Our ranking is exactly identical. :)

(Look everybody!!! Agreeing opinions in a Doctor Who forum!! ;) :P )
There must be a comet that swings by every 58 years or something. :)
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SJF
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by SJF »

skifflebits wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:23 pm
SJF wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:29 am
7. James Dreyfus - Boring and transphobic. We don’t Stan.

6. David Garfield - Not even hear him but not a dick so...

5. Chris Finney - He’s fine for what his role is.

4. Jon Culshaw - His Ainley is actually pretty decent although he’s not done a lot of it. His Delgado is awful tho.

3. Milo Parker - He’s the good boi Master before he did all the murders. And he’s neither James Dreyfus nor a recast. Oh wait no, he is a recast never mind.

2. Sam Kisgart - He’s both very good at playing the Master, and also at keeping his arch nemesis Mark Gatiss’s grubby mitts off of the role. Plus he’s absolutely incorrigible and seduces every woman he meets which is hilarious because it actually works.

1. Alex Macqueen - He’s Neil’s dad so obviously he’s the best.


I only included the canon Masters on this list, that’s why it’s so short.
No Gatiss? Everything he's in is Doctor Who canon, whether it's in Doctor Who or not.
Not when he’s trying to steal roles from Sam Kisgart, the true thespian.
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skifflebits
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by skifflebits »

SJF wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:53 pm
Not when he’s trying to steal roles from Sam Kisgart, the true thespian.
Sam runs circles around him. Mark should be embarrassed to breathe the same air as Sam.
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RoseyT
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by RoseyT »

8/7. Platt & Beevers

Nothing against the guys it's just they basically have no screen time and the time they do get in my opinion they're demoted to monster of the week as opposed to the Master we know and love.

6. Dahwan

I am not a fan of making The Master bananas. Dahwan does have some creepy moments but most of them are ruined by him bouncing around like a clown less than 30 seconds later.

5. Simm

The same type of issues. He's played as a psychopath which to me isn't what the Master is. He does get a redemption of sorts in S12 and is also brilliant in the majority of The Sound Of Drums. However 'The Master Race' may be for me one of the cringiest ideas of RTD's run and I'm not a fan of Skeletor either.

4. Delgado

I adore every Master from this point onwards and there's like a fraction of a difference between each of them in my ranking. Delgado is great at being a creepy menace. Absolutely brilliant. However, I feel a lot of the time he relies on the same shtick and lets the monsters do a lot of the work for him. He's also missing that camp factor that I adore from The Master.

3. Jacobi

Yes he's high up but in his what 5 minutes on screen he ticked every box of what the master should be. Vain, camp, evil and glorious. I adored it and it left me begging for more. I really do wish we'd seen more of him as the Master and he was for sure the one that left me wanting more; more so than any Master bar my number one.

2. Ainley

I love camp. Ainley's master to me was a queer icon who I look forward to seeing even in stories I am fully aware are dire (and in the 80s that's more than a fair share). Even in crap like Planet Of Fire my goodness does he shine whilst still being evil and not afraid to kill or destroy so as to get his own way. I also feel acting wise he doesn't get the credit he deserves for the job he did on the role!

1. Gomez

To me, Gomez is the personification of the Master. A little bit insane but like not too much. She is the definition of camp, evil and cunning which is what we want the Master to be. I also adore the exploration of the Master's redemption and what she brings to the role when exploring that. She's also never outshone by monster supporting her and even when in a story with Simm (who by all intents and purposes is written fantastically in The Doctor Falls) still manages to come through as a great and welcome addition to the story.

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skifflebits
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by skifflebits »

Bundesrat wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:19 pm
skifflebits wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:05 pm
But I'd argue that Simm's performances combined with the differences in writing are so different that they warrant two ranks. Could you really have seen RTD's Saxon hiding out in a disguise for ages to unfold a devious plan?
He hid out under a pseudonym of Mr Saxon in the guise of an earthling for quite a while......
Fair point, but there was very little difference in his personality. The only "disguise" he had was that he'd regenerated so the Doctor didn't recognize him.
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Dalekoddjob
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by Dalekoddjob »

RoseyT wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:47 am
8/7. Platt & Beevers

Nothing against the guys it's just they basically have no screen time and the time they do get in my opinion they're demoted to monster of the week as opposed to the Master we know and love.

6. Dahwan

I am not a fan of making The Master bananas. Dahwan does have some creepy moments but most of them are ruined by him bouncing around like a clown less than 30 seconds later.

5. Simm

The same type of issues. He's played as a psychopath which to me isn't what the Master is. He does get a redemption of sorts in S12 and is also brilliant in the majority of The Sound Of Drums. However 'The Master Race' may be for me one of the cringiest ideas of RTD's run and I'm not a fan of Skeletor either.

4. Delgado

I adore every Master from this point onwards and there's like a fraction of a difference between each of them in my ranking. Delgado is great at being a creepy menace. Absolutely brilliant. However, I feel a lot of the time he relies on the same shtick and lets the monsters do a lot of the work for him. He's also missing that camp factor that I adore from The Master.

3. Jacobi

Yes he's high up but in his what 5 minutes on screen he ticked every box of what the master should be. Vain, camp, evil and glorious. I adored it and it left me begging for more. I really do wish we'd seen more of him as the Master and he was for sure the one that left me wanting more; more so than any Master bar my number one.

2. Ainley

I love camp. Ainley's master to me was a queer icon who I look forward to seeing even in stories I am fully aware are dire (and in the 80s that's more than a fair share). Even in crap like Planet Of Fire my goodness does he shine whilst still being evil and not afraid to kill or destroy so as to get his own way. I also feel acting wise he doesn't get the credit he deserves for the job he did on the role!

1. Gomez

To me, Gomez is the personification of the Master. A little bit insane but like not too much. She is the definition of camp, evil and cunning which is what we want the Master to be. I also adore the exploration of the Master's redemption and what she brings to the role when exploring that. She's also never outshone by monster supporting her and even when in a story with Simm (who by all intents and purposes is written fantastically in The Doctor Falls) still manages to come through as a great and welcome addition to the story.
master to me was a queer icon

I'm not sure in what context you meant this comment, but if its referring to a gay panto villain type icon then the word is highly inappropriate and offensive.
if its queer as in strange all is good........

Dalekoddjob
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by Dalekoddjob »

skifflebits wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:40 pm
Yeah, we've done this before, but not in a while. What's your personal ranking of the on-screen Masters. There's no right or wrong here. Just how do you feel?

And let's limit it to the on-screen incarnations only. Most people aren't familiar with MacQueen's or Gatiss' takes on the characters, so...


10. Simm under RTD - It was no fun watching a talented actor rant, rave, and foam at the mouth for no reason. If he asked old question of "what's my motivation here?" RTD must have responded with, "I dunno. You're the Master. You're insane. Go with that."

9. Dhawan - I want to rank him higher because his "in disguise" performance was really quite good, but for me he's still following in Simm's footsteps of "I'm mad! MAD, DO YOU HEAR!" and it's disappointing.

8. Beevers - I dunno. For me he kind of took Pratt's sinister take and somehow came across less like an evil genius and more like a creepy uncle.

7. Roberts - The last time I watched the TVM, I was surprised at how I'd under-rated Roberts on initial viewing. Yeah, he's hamming it up, but he's injecting the whole production with an energy it really needs. And he pulls off the menace in the right places while still having fun with it.

6. Ainley - Maybe I should rank him higher for nostalgia reasons, but for me he's kind of "The Roger Moore of Masters," campy, sure, but reassuringly so. "No, my dear Doctor, you must die. Die, Doctor! DIE, DOCTOR!"

5. Pratt - He wore a plastic mask with ping pong ball eyes, and still he could send shivers up my spine.

4. Jacobi - He'd probably rank higher if he'd had more lines, but man, did he bring the evil, and left a big impression on me in just a few short minutes on screen.

3. Simm under Moff - I was glad to see Simm redeem himself under Moff's reign. He got beyond the wacky "madman" act and found some actual layers in the character. Good on ya, John!

2. Gomez - She brought a perfect combination of genius, malice, and madness, and worked so well opposite Capaldi. Her little "Hello, I'm Doctor Who..." bit at the front of "World Enough and Time" struck a balance that I don't think anyone else could have pulled off.

1. Delgado - The original. He still defines the character for me. "My dear Miss Grant..."


Honorable Mention: Johnathan Pryce. In an interview surrounding Curse of Fatal Death, he said he was trying to figure out the Master's laugh, and he finally got it when he realized it was a victory cry. Gotta take my hat off to that.

Deliberately Not Mentioning: Gordon Tripple. For the same reasons I don't mention Anthony Ainley's stunt double.
You've written almost exactly what i would have done! Though I might have ranked Ainey a bit higher, for nostalgia nd the fact he had some good performances.

RoseyT
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by RoseyT »

Hi,

As a queer person I think I know how to use the word. The campness and fashion of the Ainley master is what makes him a queer icon. The casting of Ainley, an openly gay man on a national television was a rather important moment and to me that also helps make him that bit more iconic.

Please don't police me on terms that I am fully aware of the history of. That to me as an LGBT person is far more offensive.

Dalekoddjob
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by Dalekoddjob »

RoseyT wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:03 pm
Hi,

As a queer person I think I know how to use the word. The campness and fashion of the Ainley master is what makes him a queer icon. The casting of Ainley, an openly gay man on a national television was a rather important moment and to me that also helps make him that bit more iconic.

Please don't police me on terms that I am fully aware of the history of. That to me as an LGBT person is far more offensive.
We shall have to be adult agree to disagree - we have both expressed our opinion, lets get back to Masters.
Curiously I've never seen Ainley refererred to as openly gay. Certainly when I met him giving a talk he talked about getting attention from the pretty makeup ladies!

Dalekoddjob
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Re: How do YOU rank the on-screen Masters? (Again)

Post by Dalekoddjob »

RoseyT wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:03 pm
Hi,

As a queer person I think I know how to use the word. The campness and fashion of the Ainley master is what makes him a queer icon. The casting of Ainley, an openly gay man on a national television was a rather important moment and to me that also helps make him that bit more iconic.

Please don't police me on terms that I am fully aware of the history of. That to me as an LGBT person is far more offensive.
Please don't police me on terms that I am fully aware of the history of. That to me as an LGBT person is far more offensive.
A final point for context - I'm also an LGBTQ (to use the correct term) person.

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